Oxfordshire tŕansgender toolkit win

[user1465335180]

AIBU to say Congratulations to the 13 year old girl who has won her test case against Oxfordshire council. A brave young woman who did what a lot if adults are afraid to do

Good. And no this shouldn't be in feminism only -sod that.
I could not care less if someone wishes to wear a dress or make up or identify as a woman. The outward trappings of femininity are a social construct not a biological fact. But the rights of xx should not be trampled over xy. Have a 3rd space by all means but do not sacrifice the separate space for women on the altar of trans rights.

ANYTHING which takes boundaries and safeguarding away from young kids and girls to cater to a few is very fucking wrong though.

Response:
"You are right about safeguarding but not about the few. Do they not count? People in wheelchairs are few do they not count? People with sight loss are few do they not count? Since when do we live in a society where the few don't count? Just because they don't fit a norm?"
I think you are mis-reading this. You can't compare this situation to people with physical disabilities or loss of sight. Of course they count. People with disabilities are in a minority and we obviously do need to cater for them but they do not create safeguarding and/or boundary issues.

I don't know that it's misreading so much as a deliberate tactic. When people want to try and delegitimise the boundaries of women and girls, they very often try and pretend wanting to be protected against male violence is the same as perpetrating oppression against a marginalised group. Basically they co-opt the experience of others. Normally they use black women to try and make their political point though, disabled is less common.

Basically they co-opt the experience of others. Normally they use black women to try and make their political point though, disabled is less common

Yes with this its usually its black women and lesbians. Highlights how disgustingly racist and homophobic it all is. Like when jo swinson went on radio and was talking about how changing rooms are full of all sorts of woman and started reeling off the usual list.. always insinuating that black women and lesbians somehow muddy the definition of woman so much that the next logical step is letting men in. Black women and lesbians are and always have been women and their presence is welcome and lawful and they dont make anyone uncomfortable unless they are a racist and a homophobe and if that's the case tough crap ,.deal with it.

As for disabled people they are screwed over with this thing too. Everyone seems to think their very scarce provision that they need and fought for for years is up for grabs to be used by anyone having an identity crisis as well . It's not a disability so stop using someone elses toilet it's not ok. Accomodating disabled women in the womens is not a safe guarding risk. And the only people at increased risk from the single occupancy fully enclosed disabled toilet is the disabled person themself. ( they could be pushed in by a predator and no one would see or hear or they could fall and not reach the alarm chord.)

None of that explains why male bodies should be allowed into girls toilets Ms why the burden of making them less vulnerable or less bullies falls on girls and not their male classmates or the teachers

Yes, absolutely. Disabled people, especially women, are collateral.

Fantastic news.

Brilliant news. I hope the rest of this madness comes tumbling down.

It's fantastic. My girls are coming up on secondary school age and I think this brave young woman has done a fantastic job of ensuring her own safeguarding and that of other young girls (and boys too, for that matter).

Yes, absolutely. Disabled people, especially women, are collateral

Yes, it's disgusting how everyone is happy to huge away everyones rights and provisions just so they dont have to be the one to be honest.

That's why these lobby groups make me so angry. They lie. They outright lie and fill the kids heads with false hope and delusion and tell them that anyone who doesnt play along is the problem. They get the testimonials and the flowers and the thank you card. Yet its us that has to do the work. Its us that has to deal with the so called " treatment" aka spending our days trying desperately not to slip up with pronouns or names. And meanwhile theres a kid in the middle who has no idea about their own body and as a result can not be kept safe. Because in order to be aware and be safe you have to know about your body and who shouldnt be touching where or talking about what and who to trust if something happens. But they have had their trust on everyone taken away and the only ones they have to speak to are the ones lying to their faces.

Heartbreaking

Give away

Stupid fat fingers

It's a pity it didn't get to court. Regulatory capture worries me and I feel we should have transparency about how we've got to the position we're in now.

Over the last few years Stonewall, GIRES, Mermaids and a few other lobbying groups/charities have branched out into providing diversity training. They make good money out of this. Some of it's funded by grants from government and councils, so we're paying for it.

After these sessions, or separately, lots of government departments, public bodies like the CPS and police forces, schools, charities, big companies have re-written their equality and diversity policies. Mysteriously many end up doing the same thing: when they list the protected characteristics under the Equality Act 'gender reassignment' is replaced with 'gender identity' and 'sex' is omitted altogether or replaced with 'gender'.

(This is in spite of the fact that most of them have legal departments who presumably know how to find the source legislation and check new policies against it. Effect of cuts? Easier and quicker to rely on the powerpoint slide from the training session than go back to the source? We know from whistleblowers that a lot of the 'training' is also inaccurate, in just the same way.)

As this has been noticed and discussed here and elsewhere, a number of doughty campaigners have written to these bodies to point out the error. This has resulted in a lot of policies being re-written or withdrawn.

One particularly notable case is documented here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3652524-Welsh-Assembly-and-the-lost-equality-impact-assessment The OP says 'The Welsh Assembly produced a 'Welsh Government Action Plan to advance equality for transgender people' in 2016 gov.wales/atisn13028 and said that an impact assessment had been carried out. A Freedom of Information request was issued on March 2019 asking to see the impact assessment. The Impact assessment appears to have been lost. No trace of it anywhere — even though the Action Plan to Advance Equality for Transgender people mentions the importance of Impact Assessments.'

It's been nearly a year now and as far as I know the Welsh government has been totally unable to produce even a draft version of their impact assessment. They are clinging to the story that there definitely was one, it's just that unfortunately it's been lost without trace. Forgive me if I feel just a tad sceptical about that.

A PP has this entirely right. It's a source of national shame that it took a 13-year-old kid to call this BS to account.

Just how, exactly, did the likes of Mermaids come to hold the power they hold? How are they being allowed into so many organizations for 'training' (AKA indoctrination) purposes? This is truly dangerous, insidious stuff, and anyone who found ^Brave New World* a frightening read should consider revisiting this genetic/hormonal engineering of children and airbrushing of parents out of the picture (and yes, this is precisely what it is) through Huxley's lens. It's no accident that his brother just happened to be a eugenicist and transhumanist.

Children's bodies are not fodder for (unalterable) social experimentation. And they also deserve to have their safety, privacy and dignity upheld.

Pity she didn't have her day in court, IMO.

I contributed to the crowd funding campaign, I’m delighted that the LA have backed down. The rights of a minority do not trump those of a majority.

Well done to that girl

It’s a shame that it didn’t get tested in court, but important nonetheless that the council realised so early they had no defence. It might make other think twice before they blindly adopt the position of a lobbying group as policy.

The school materials focus on the bad things that could happen to people born male but now identifying as female in the boys' toilets. Girls were encouraged to feel these bad things would be their fault if they didn't welcome transgirls into single sex spaces like the girls' toilets and changing rooms. Meanwhile, the boys whe were born boys were presumably going to be absolved of blame because, "boys will be boys" and everyone has given up asking them to be nice to everyone with xy chromosomes who is entitled to share their single sex spaces.

Why does it never seem to occur to Stonewall et al to focus on encouraging boys and men to be nicer, more tolerant and more understanding?

It's as if that route never even crosses anyone's mind.

Yes how can girls be the bigots when its boys who are so afraid of non conforming men/boys to the degree they kick them out the man box altogether and make them the girls " problem"

Everyone recognises that transmen are safer with the girls so girls get screwed over twice. Once when having to play sports with their male bodied class mates and again with girls/ women doped up on testosterone

One of these cases should go to court though. We need clear definitions of what words like "trans" actually mean.

Agreed BadLady
This needs to be tested in the courts. Can girls (and women) reasonably expect to have privacy when vulnerable / undressing / showering / sleeping from random boys and men who state that they are now women or do these boys / men have a legal right to share the spaces where girls undress etc. even if those women object? We know that Stonewall and other lobby groups insist that men's rights to access women when undressed triumph - but do they in law?

Why wouldn’t any parents on mumsnet want to know about this? This is certainly not ‘just a feminist’ issue! This is a safeguarding nightmare in a time when in student on student sexual assaults are happening everyday in schools in the UK.

Why would any parent NOT want to know what is happening and just why schools would allow male bodied students access to toilets with the female students? This is when all students who are vulnerable need to be considered equally. And frankly if a ‘gender neutral’ toilet needs to be added, that is the answer. It is not ‘hateful’ to push back on guidelines that don’t safeguard all students. These guidelines threw safeguarding females under the bus.

Tell us, whose agenda does calling questioning safeguarding of all children hateful really progress?

Why wouldn’t any parents on mumsnet want to know about this?

Because they'd like to continue deluding themselves, and they're more interested in that than safeguarding girls.

On a basic level with toilets,
TMI but when I first started my periods I regularly leaked everywhere, toilet visits were messy, girls need a private place they can sort themselves out. We should have a bloody protest and terrify the lot
Of them......in fact, if we just keep talking about periods, blood etc they will run for the hills

Similar experience as a young teen, Justnot, but sadly, not all would run for the hills.

J. Yaniv. Need I say more?

Why wouldn’t any parents on mumsnet want to know about this? This is certainly not ‘just a feminist’ issue! This is a safeguarding nightmare in a time when in student on student sexual assaults are happening everyday in schools in the UK

Because they think we are all transphobic or hate men even though they will argue on a changing rooms thread that they should be able to bring their 11 year olds into the womens because they acknowledge the fact the mens isnt safe. But then also think this is a trans issue, we are hysterical and they cant bear agreeing with a feminist about anything.

I'm.also going to say here too that for anyone who think.its hard harmless or no big deal -WE GOT THE CPS GUIDANCE PULLED FOR REVIEW TOO

Why that matters you ask?

Well it was telling your girls that if you approach or question anyone Male bodied, even a fully grown arse man complete with beard , in the girls toilets you are committing a hate crime.

Yes you heard right.

This is no longer something you can ignore.

Great news. I hope Girlguiding will take note.