Oxfordshire tŕansgender toolkit win

[user1465335180]

AIBU to say Congratulations to the 13 year old girl who has won her test case against Oxfordshire council. A brave young woman who did what a lot if adults are afraid to do

How many withdrawn documents are kicking about in all organisations? It would have to be a pretty major change for an organisation to put the work in to strip it out completely. I suspect this means unless parents/children continually question the presence or use of the toolkit the daily practice won’t change.

Government legally compliant guidance is required which supersedes and over rules all similar documents from any source.

There is a real safeguarding issue at stake here which is not about hating all men and not wanting them in our changing spaces. We know NAMALT. But the issue is still that the overwhelming majority of violent or sexual offenders are male - the statistics clearly bear this out - and sadly it isn't possible to tell who the threatening ones are simply by looking at them.

Just wanted to add that it's not solely about safety and safeguarding; it's about privacy and dignity too. I very much doubt that my dad and bestie (male) are predatory. However, I don't want to see their bloody cock and balls when I'm changing for the gym. And I don't want them seeing me, either!

I read they said they pulled the toolkit because it will be superceded by a European directive that will be coming out at some point - I think they did it so they wouldn’t have to go to court and have the argument - no idea what’s meant to be in European directive

There is a huge gap between “transphobia” and objecting to illegal “guidance” that takes girls single sex toilets/showers/changing rooms/sleeping spaces and replaces them with mixed sex spaces where girls are reviled and punished if they object to being human shields to protect gender non-conforming boys from other boys (and vice versa, boys are equally compromised).

No other protected characteristic is treated like this. Disabled toilets are an extra, ramps are an extra even though making both of those the default would not impact those who do not need them.

Thanks for posting OP! If any of the people involved in the toolkit actually cared about trans people, they would have pushed for a third space for trans children to change/toilet, then everybody would have been happy, especially trans boys who are always forgotten.

European directive? Sounds like BS. We are leaving the EU in months.

You are right - sped read it this morning and misremembered
they said they are waiting for the EHRC report

The council backed down because they knew they didn’t stand a chance.

Why haven’t Stonewall been told to inform every single organisation they have “trained”, that they deliberately misinformed them?

And as the mother of two daughters I’m horrified that it took a 13 year old to bring this to a head.

Justnot
The draft EHRC trans guidelines for schools were leaked a while back and they were awful. The same 'girls must accept a boy's rights to share changing rooms, showers, dormitories if he says he's a girl' etc.
The Times covered it - here's a share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8ded83cc-d70d-11e9-9149-9833d870d22d?shareToken=39d7f720f358257a2c95cf8ae5420db1

She should be proud. She made a difference.

We have left the EU.

The ECHR or EHRC is the Human Rights Convention of the Council of Europe which we are not leaving. Every European nation is a member except Belarus.

This is excellent news. The LA backed down because they knew their guidance was putting girls at risk and it contradicted safeguarding guidelines.

Well done to that girl who made a stand, and they were cowards to withdraw before she had her day in court.

Helping children love their own precious bodies and embrace reality is never wrong. The best gift anyone can give trans kids is help to come to terms with their own changing and very real human bodies, like all young people, and the understanding that it is never right to violate the boundaries of others by appropriating their identities.

A pressure group promoting those ideas would be very welcome in schools. Sadly the ones that are in schools are saying the exact opposite to vulnerable children. What an absolute disgrace.

Stuff keeping this in feminism chat.

The sooner all parents know theori kid can be transitioned behind their backs at school and placed in danger and their sons and daughters both forced to be exposed to members of the opposite sex at their most vulnerable behind their parents back, thanks to lobby groups and their "guidance" the better.

Safeguarding isnt optional.
And it sure as hell isnt legal either.

The guidance that is.

Well done to that girl, if her parents are on here by any chance, good on you for supporting your daughter in speaking up for her sex based rights.

I'm not sure I understand how the perceived need for single sex spaces would overrule the needs of a vulnerable child. But then I assume schools wouldn't let just any boy use the girl's toilets or dormitory, there would have to be discussions and a history and any child identifying as transgender would open themselves up for horrible bullying from their peers. I really don't think anyone would do that for fun.

“Perceived need?”

Wow.

I do wish that those who think this issue is anti-trans or transphobic would stop and think.

About 50% of 13-year-olds are boys, and about 50% of 13-year-olds are girls. Puberty is difficult, for boys as well as for girls. But this strategy tramples all over the girls’ needs for privacy and dignity. And it doesn’t matter what the motivations of a male-born person (of any age) are, the rights of 13-year-old girls finding it upsetting to deal with stripping off after swimming or dealing with periods if there’s a male-born person next to her should always have the higher priority.

Given that something like 90% of Mumsnetters are female, then 90% of us would have gone through puberty, what with the breasts that keep changing size and shape, and the bleeding that’s unpredictable in timing and amounts (and the smells and the stains). Can none of you remember what that was like? Can none of you imagine how worse it would be if there’s someone you’ve always known as Paul but-is-now-Paula is right next to you and has no idea what female puberty is like but you are not allowed to complain? To know at 13 years old that your rights for privacy and dignity have no place in this brave new world?

This case is a win, in the sense it’s a strong shot across the bows that those with power and authority will be challenged and will be held accountable.

But it’s also not a win, because it took Oxfordshire far too long to withdraw this toolkit, and only to avoid being held to account. They are now going to rely on the government’s EHRC, but there are valid concerns about who is involved and who is advising them.

How many of us were once 13 year old girls? How many of us have daughters who were once 13 years old, or will become 13 years old, or have granddaughters, etc. How many 13 year old girls are currently in our schools right now? Was our dignity a priority back then, is it a priority now, will it be a priority in the future? Protecting the privacy and dignity of girls is not transphobic, it’s just simply protecting the privacy and dignity of girls and women.

It doesn’t matter why they are doing it.

Single sex spaces are not a refuge for gender non-confirming children of the opposite sex. They are not “perceived to be” necessary, they are necessary for privacy, dignity, they are legally required for schools, a safeguarding basic and the girls who are victims of sexual abuse should not have to explain why they are not comfortable with a boy in their showers.

student58 there are all sorts of vulnerable.
A girl who is being abused by someone at home is vulnerable and may only feel safe in female- only spaces; but can't voice this.
A 13 year old girl dealing with a heavy period with terrible embarrassment is vulnerable; but wouldn't necessarily explain the problem to her teacher or even her friends.
A religious Muslim or Jewish girl who is only permitted to use single sex spaces and so stops using the toilets at school if they aren't certain that they are single sex is vulnerable.
Any teen girl who is ashamed or paranoid about the fact that her body makes smells and noises when her culture tells her girls must be pretty and fragrant at all times to be attractive is vulnerable.

Trans students do not by any means have a monopoly on vulnerability. Of course they are vulnerable and will need sensitive and empathic and probably individual planning. That's the point.

I'm not sure I understand how the perceived need for single sex spaces would overrule the needs of a vulnerable child.

I’m not sure I understand how the perceived need of a vulnerable child to access opposite sex spaces would overrule the needs of other vulnerable children for the spaces to be single sex.

I'm not sure I understand how the perceived need for single sex spaces would overrule the needs of a vulnerable child

The child is made more vulnerable by the fact schools now have to immediately affirm, behind parents back if kid doesnt want anything said, and assisted with access to clothing or whatever , instead of exploring what it if anything has happened or is happening that may have caused the child such disconnect from their body. Any number if things can cause children to suddenly hate themselves . Abuse, trauma, grooming, autism, all sorts. But instead of exploring these (that's transphobic) schools are told to affirm and grant access to changing rooms and toilets etc. Please, enlighten me how that remotely benefits the child.