Will black lives ever matter?

[RockLock]

So another killing of a black man Ahmaud Arbery by 2 white men (Father and son) in US. They nearly got away with it calling it a citizen arrest and self defence. Father was a retired policeman.

They followed him, armed with guns and shot him.

Prosecutors tried to cover it up until the video emerged.
Ahmaud’s crime? He was going for a jog.

Will black lives ever matter?

I hope so. They went after a jogger believing he was a burglar likely because he was black. I found it shocking - imagine feeling scared to exercise because someone might hunt you down

Hmmm - African-Americans accounted for about 15% of murders of Whites, according to FBI data if you want to talk about violent crime..

It is something you see so often on here @Mamathebest. It's fascinating how defensive some posters become when racism is pointed out. It makes them very uncomfortable to have their viewpoints challenged.

Most white people have a very limited understanding of racism but, as you can see in this thread alone, have no problem with assuming that their perspective is 'correct'. They will readily dismiss the arguments and experiences of those with greater knowledge i.e. people of colour, without a shred of humility. It's annoying.

Imagine pulling out irrelevant stats to discuss whether black lives matter after a innocent black man was gunned down by racist white men

The point is that this is not a widespread trend in the US. Stats back it up.

Individual cases do matter, of course. And I hope justice will be done.

I do think racism exists in America and I do think it leads to poorer life outcomes. We need to do better on that.

But I don’t believe there are large numbers of white people who get kicks out of murdering blacks. The stats just don’t support that.

Unfortunately nothing will ever change. As a non white person I have accepted this. Many white people will not/cannot acknowledge racism. They cannot see that this wilful ignorance is fuelling racism even further. It’s exhausting to even have this discussion anymore.

@Mamathebest a lot of us are listening, a lot of us are hearing and accepting what you are saying. It must be so exhausting, but thank you for persisting, and please believe, your words and your arguments do make a difference.

Relying on statistics produced by US law enforcement, when trying to argue against the idea that law enforcement in the US is institutionally racist, seems a bit dubious to me.

But I don’t believe there are large numbers of white people who get kicks out of murdering blacks. The stats just don’t support that.

The existence of the KKK sure as hell does.

I don’t know about the perpetrators of violence sufficient to comment. I do know there is a shocking level of inequality in healthcare in the U.K. and BAME people are likely to have worse healthcare access and outcomes.

Many of the slogans like 'Black lives matter' are in themselves racist, all lives matter.

With the greatest respect, ODFOD.

Relying on statistics produced by US law enforcement, when trying to argue against the idea that law enforcement in the US is institutionally racist, seems a bit dubious to me

Translation: These stats don’t back up my assertions so I will ignore them.

If you don’t rely on the stats collected by the FBI, what are you relying on? A hunch?

*I feel sick to my stomach by some of the responses. So clueless, so ignorant. So dismissive?

I agree with you, but remember that many people here are racist too...no doubt those include posters on MN who are clueless about these issues.

Just like a man called into a radio station recently to say all the black/asian NHS workers who have died, were only coming here to better their lives anyway...so ..you know.... let's not act like they're doing us a favour here.

I very much doubt people get it, unless they belong to a BME group or have otherwise been impacted by racism.

Why does acknowledging racism upset YOU so much?

Of those that cross racial lines, black people disproportionately kill white people in the US. This is clear from FBI stats.

Can you provide proof of this please? I doubt it is true.

I don’t know about the perpetrators of violence sufficient to comment. I do know there is a shocking level of inequality in healthcare in the U.K. and BAME people are likely to have worse healthcare access and outcomes

This is also the case in the US. Hate crimes which lead to murder are incredibly rare; this sort of inequality touches all black people in America (remember Serena Williams almost died in childbirth due to poor care and she’s a millionaire several times over).

@radiantrose

Those statistics are false and the website linked to appears to be dubious at beat...

www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump-retweets-bogus-crime-graphic/

OgoPogo,
US law enforcement statistics prove institutional racism exists, so not sure why you wrote what you did. HellomyKittys FBI statistics clearly show that hate crimes against black people are far more common than hate crimes against any other race.

I think Kitty’s sadly desensitised so to her, the fact it is a low seeming number compared to a population of 360million, it’s just everyday American violence. But for those of us from more peaceful countries with no gun violence and hardly any homicidal hate crimes, it’s shocking to us to have thousands dying every year from racist hate crime.

I know I don't get it. I'm white. But I listen to those who aren't, who tell me about how their lives have been negatively impacted, in so many ways, because their skin colour is not white. And I believe them. And I'm fucking furious that they have suffered so as a result of what their bloody colour is.

Can you provide proof of this please? I doubt it is true

I’d be interested to hear why you doubt it? I’m serious, not being goady.

In 2018, 514 white people were killed by black people; in contrast, 234 black people were killed by whites.

In fact, the vast majority of murder in both cases are intraracial, as should be expected really: ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

@PlanDeRaccordement

They do show that institutional racism exists, but given that institutional racism exists within law enforcement, I think it's extremely likely that the statistics produced by law enforcement underecord the extent of that racism.

Thank you HebeMumsnet.

For anybody thinking UK doesn’t have a big problem with racism, then this thread tells them otherwise. Yes racism in UK doesn’t carry a gun but wants to maintain the status quo and turn a blind eye to inequality suffered by BAME community.

re healthcare inequalities; a black woman rang a radio station this week to say a little acknowledged inequality arises from assumptions white people make that black people are stronger, both physically and mentally, than the majority uk population.
she said she had direct experience of this, and how dangerous it could be. eg symptoms overlooked or minimised, esp pain.
also psychologically, the assumption that support is not needed, that black people are tough.
i think this links to racist assumptions that can lead to white people fearing black people, with tragic consequences.

shocking to us to have thousands dying every year from racist hate crime

The stats say 24 hate crime murders in the US in 2018; hardly the thousands you are asserting here without proof.

@HelloToMyKitty & @radiantrose you've shown your asses enough now, thanks...

YANBU in some parts of the world, but we are talking about America here, to some citizens and some police black lives will never matter and innocent black people gunned down by trigger happy white people and white police officers will never get justice.