Will black lives ever matter?

[RockLock]

So another killing of a black man Ahmaud Arbery by 2 white men (Father and son) in US. They nearly got away with it calling it a citizen arrest and self defence. Father was a retired policeman.

They followed him, armed with guns and shot him.

Prosecutors tried to cover it up until the video emerged.
Ahmaud’s crime? He was going for a jog.

Will black lives ever matter?

America really shocked me; I had no idea it would feel so racist and I was touring the East coast not in the deep South or anything. Arriving in New York and seeing black and white people interacting normally felt like a massive relief.

@memememoi what the hell are you talking about - I’m saying that a long, entrenched history of racism gave those men a sense that they could do whatever they liked (following this man, allegedly challenging him about local crime, carrying weapons, ultimately killing him). That the social discourse told them they could do whatever they liked without repercussions.

The reason an innocent black man died going out for a jog is entirely because of the deeply ingrained societal, institutional and personal racism in communities that creates a narrative that places black people as dangerous, threatening - even just going for a jog.

@Jellycatspyjamas quoted wrong person. Apologies

And they almost did pretty much get away with it.
Nobody acted when this happened in February. The only reason it's happening now is because of the nation wide outrage.

I know there are issues here in the UK and we have had our own racist murders, but it does seem to be quite frequent in the US and they don't seem to give a toss about it.

I remember reading that Mohammed Ali (I think it was him) liked coming here because he always felt welcome and it was not as racist and I remember thinking Really!!! It must be really bad over there if he thinks that way about the UK.

Again for those of you pulling stats out stats-

are you saying black people are killing white people they are white....??

Again for those of you pulling stats out stats-

are you saying black people are killing white people *because they are white....??

So the article you linked to said 25% of people killed by police were African American, which is way disproportionate in relation to the percentage of the US population who are African American.

@memememoi no problem - it’s an important discussion, the attitudes of some folk on this thread are sickening.

Imagine pulling out irrelevant stats to discuss whether black lives matter after a innocent black man was gunned down by racist white men, these racist white men were then protected by the law which is meant to serve and protect ALL lives.

Little wonder people do not want white people anywhere near discussions about race

You have to remember, they weren’t arrested because the authorities saw the video, they were arrested because we saw the video.

Just as in the UK non-whites are more likely to not be believed by the authorities.

And yet white people need to be part of the discussion- to challenge themselves about the million micro-aggressions and assumptions that create a world where this is even a matter for debate.

@Jellycatspyjamas agree 100%

YANBU. 2 yrs ago me and my partner went to a Beyonce &Jay-Z concert. I admit had a bit too much wine...I went into a full on rant to police who were telling us we weren't aloud to walk on a side of the road (after the concert) and were telling everyone to queue, about how this was not the law and they couldn't force us to!

I also flung something in about corruption and was loudly voicing to the crowd about the press coverings of a royal wedding or baby at the time, whilst black kids where being murdered at an alarming rate down in London, which didn't receive a spot of the amount of media coverage.

My point was we had just been to see Bey&Jay and they are advocates for the Black Lives Matter Movement. Sadly unless you come from an "ethnic minority" community people will always find excuses to get round their muddy view of these issues.

Of course they matter! But sadly America has a huge racism and gun problem. Just look at the mug shots of the ignorant pigs.

Unarmed black men are 3.5 times more likely to be shot by the police than unarmed white men in the US.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634878/

You have to remember, they weren’t arrested because the authorities saw the video, they were arrested because we saw the video.
Well put.

Op YANBU I gave up attempting to discuss racism on Mumsnet, when a poster told me that my lived experiences of racism, as a British born black woman are a figment of my imagination and attributed to the "chip" on my shoulder that I'm walking around with.

Could you imagine if this was a video of a white woman being chased and gunned down by two men (regardless of race). I wonder how many people would be pulling out stats and trying to find arguments that all lives matter and we shouldn’t be focusing on violence against women.......or bringing up random cases of violence from women towards men to make sure we see that men are actually the victims.

Unfortunately nothing will ever change. As a non white person I have accepted this. Many white people will not/cannot acknowledge racism. They cannot see that this wilful ignorance is fuelling racism even further. It’s exhausting to even have this discussion anymore.

I wonder how many people would be pulling out stats and trying to find arguments that all lives matter and we shouldn’t be focusing on violence against women....

Have you ever tried to discuss gender based violence in the context of domestic abuse - in my experience folk fall over themselves to deny violence against women is an issue.

Almost as much as they do in denying racism is an issue...

SimonJT,
they weren’t arrested because the authorities saw the video, they were arrested because we saw the video.

In the reports I’ve read, the authorities got the video at the same time as the public because it was anonymously released. The arrests came within a week of the video being released.

I completely agree police corruption caused the police department to take the killers word for the situation and that they almost got away with it. Its terrifying to contemplate that if the video had only been released to the authorities that they would have buried that evidence too.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/07/ahmaud-arbery-former-police-officer-and-son-charged-in-shooting-of-black-man

@Mamathebest we have to believe things will change.

The pace of change is frustratingly slow - so frustratingly slow. But we have to keep up the good fight. I have high hopes for the next generation.

wonder how many people would be pulling out stats and trying to find arguments that all lives matter and we shouldn’t be focusing on violence against women.

Too many. I speak from experience and hanging around the FWR board. People will also fall over themselves to deny DV, male violence etc while throwing whatabouteries about.

are you saying black people are killing white people because they are white....??*

Of hate crimes in general, you have a point. This is the FBI breakdown:

Among single-bias hate crime incidents in 2018, there were 5,155 victims of race/ethnicity/ancestry motivated hate crime.

47.1 percent were victims of crimes motivated by offenders’ anti-Black or African American bias.
20.1 percent were victims of anti-White bias.
13.0 percent were victims of anti-Hispanic or Latino bias.
4.1 percent were victims of anti-American Indian or Alaska Native bias.
3.4 percent were victims of anti-Asian bias.
3.4 percent were victims of bias against a group of individuals in which more than one race was represented (anti-multiple races, group).
1.9 percent were victims of anti-Arab bias.
0.5 percent (26 individuals) were victims of anti-Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander bias.
6.5 percent were victims of anti-Other Race/Ethnicity/Ancestry bias.

That said, hate crimes which lead to murder are very rare according to FBI statistics. I didn’t get a breakdown by ethnicity but the total number regardless of race/ethnicity is vanishingly small:

Law enforcement reported 5,566 hate crime offenses as crimes against persons. By offense type:

46.0 percent were intimidation.
34.0 percent were simple assault.
18.4 percent were aggravated assault.
0.8 percent consisted of 24 murders and 22 rapes. (See Methodology for more details about changes in the definition of rape in the UCR Program.)
0.7 percent involved the offense category other, which is collected only in NIBRS

24 murders in 2018 in the US is still too many but is really a small number when compared to overall murder rates. The largest category of hate crimes (for those interested) was apparently damage to property.