To be so ashamed of my country and being British?

[KenDodd]

For so many reasons recently. I feel so, so sad about what has happened to our country.

YANBU to feel that way
YABU to feel that way

Fair bit of whataboutism going on here from the defenders of Britannia "What about what's happening in China?" "What about what's happening in Venezuela?" etc.

If you're not ashamed of what's going on in terms of how this government has handled this crisis, then you are, by every measure, an absolute idiot. In fact, the way this government has conducted itself over the last few years is simply disgusting.

@17million "I am grateful I am not part of the London liberal bubble" And we're grateful we're not part of your uneducated sheep shagging village.

*we should all remember those who fought and died and otherwise kept this country going through 6 years of war and another 6 or 7 years of rationing and hardship

Like many other countries did?*

Completely irrelevant, we’re talking about this country. I’m neither proud nor ashamed. It’s an accident of birth.

Like many other countries did?
Just one day to thank the war veterans of the UK. That's not too much to ask, is it?
A lot of you sound like arch hypocrite Emma Thompson who went to live in Venice because she was such a Europhile. Things got too dangerous in Italy so she hot-footed it back to her third ? home in Scotland.

And I’m not in the least ashamed of the actions of this government because I’d sooner have eaten my own liver than voted for them.

"No I am not. And I think if we all stopped drooping about feeling ashamed and slagging ourselves off constantly we might actually stop looking such a shower of pathetic twats. How can we expect anyone else to respect us when we are so busy whining about ourselves. The only people who should be ashamed are the government and those who voted them in but I can guarantee they're not."

Another one who 100% agrees with this. Just get over yourself and stop with the self indulgent navel gazing. It doesn't make you sound more compassionate and switched on and woke, it just makes you sound like a whinger.

And thanks to my career I have friends and colleagues who live all over the world and I can assure you none of them really waste any headspace over the UK, or what it's up to.

The government, presumably, was acting on expert guidance as to when was the best time to begin lockdown. As were other governments. Perhaps that advice was different? Perhaps the virus spread quicker than anticipated? Perhaps the scientific modelling was different? I doubt very much the govt were advised 'deaths are likely to be 10,000 if you lockdown this week and 20,000 if you lockdown in a week' and they thought 'fuck it, let's wait a week and condemn those 10,000 people to death'. Everyone was working with what they knew at the time. I'm sure that if COVID-19 hadn't spread at the rate it did and far fewer people had been severely affected then other governments would have been condemned for unnecessarily curtailing the freedom of their citizens.

I'm proud to be British. This crisis has in the main brought out kindness and a real sense of community in the people I know and the community in which I live.

They acted on advice but not quickly enough, seems until reaction was to go for ‘herd’ immunity idea...

Also we have a large population squashed onto a small island which is served by one of the busiest airports in the world, and we have the highest rate of obesity in Europe. I'm not remotely surprised our death rate is so high.

Who is defending the regime in China? One of the arguments against Brexit is that the UK would be weaker outside of the EU, especially when negotiating with the super-powers i.e the USA, China and Russia.

Anyway, you don’t have to be British to mark the anniversary of Victory in Europe. Both of my grandfathers fought on the side of the Allies in WWII. One was British, the other was French.

And thanks to my career I have friends and colleagues who live all over the world and I can assure you none of them really waste any headspace over the UK, or what it's up to.

I think a lot of this ‘shame’ is actually routed in colonial-type attitudes that are deep seated. People believe deep down that the UK should be ‘superior’ even if this blatantly isn’t the case and we are just a country that gets some things right and some wrong. Likewise they think that people elsewhere see us as more important than they actually do. I think some of these trendy, woke-types actually need to consider their unconscious bias.

I am grateful I am not part of the London liberal bubble.
The "London liberal bubble" is part of English society. Are you proud to be English or not?

Are you proud to be English or not?

Why do I need to be proud to be English? Genuinely interested. I am English, it’s part of my identity. I like England it is my home. But proud?

And it's not a nationality. It's just an island which houses 3 countries who all have different governments but are part of a larger union which only works well for one of them.

It is a nationality. If you are naturalised British or a British citizen by descent and were not born in England, Scotland, N. Ireland or Wales then British is your nationality. A person born in NZ to English and Welsh parents can only be a Kiwi or British.

Why do I need to be proud to be English? Genuinely interested.
You don't, no-one does. But the person I was answering says that she is proud to be English, and then contradicts herself by saying that she is grateful not to be a certain part of English society.

'It is a nationality. If you are naturalised British or a British citizen by descent and were not born in England, Scotland, N. Ireland or Wales then British is your nationality. A person born in NZ to English and Welsh parents can only be a Kiwi or British.'

That's the politics of the union. Great Britain is not a country and never has been, neither has the United Kingdom. We are a union of countries who have drifted into the 'British' thing, but it's not actually the case. We're British by geography, but English, Welsh or Scottish by nationality.

It is confusing as many English people seem to believe that being English and British are the same thing. They're not. When Scotland eventually achieves independence, we'll still be British even without being in a union with England.

www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality

I am grateful I am not part of the London liberal bubble

Wow you are stupid.

This "London bubble" drives nearly a third of this country's GDP, pay £3,000 more, on average per person, in tax revenues than they receive in public spending (literally subsidising the rest of the country) and are twice as likely to have a degree than the rest of the UK.

Honestly, some of these threads lately are beginning to make me understand why so many people voted Tory/Boris. Say what you like (I know you will!) it’s small wonder IMO that his air of cheerful optimism beat the doom, gloom, everything’s shit, not to mention being ashamed of or despising your own country.
And before anyone asks or wonders, I voted LD last time (fat lot of use that was) and Remain in 2016.

If you're not ashamed of what's going on in terms of how this government has handled this crisis, then you are, by every measure, an absolute idiot
Being judgemental of people you don't even know is much more idiotic than whatever they think of the government.

That's the politics of the union. Great Britain is not a country and never has been

That's agreed, however the nationality on passports is British and a person not born in E,W,NI, or S cannot be anything other than British if they have taken citizenship. It can be a nationality without being a country.

Nomen est omen

And I really don't get why people who are so ashamed don't love abroad and change their nationality.

No one is stopping you.

This "London bubble" drives nearly a third of this country's GDP, pay £3,000 more, on average per person, in tax revenues than they receive in public spending (literally subsidising the rest of the country) and are twice as likely to have a degree than the rest of the UK

Only the last part of that may be true in a few months’ time.

Going abroad and changing your nationality wasn't even that easy before Brexit!

Going abroad and changing your nationality wasn't even that easy before Brexit!

I imagine it depends where you wanted to move to. Probably the ‘I am ashamed to be British’-types aren’t so ashamed that they’d move anywhere.