To not want to move to Wales?

[dgarcia85]

My OH and I live in SE London and we are about to start TTC. We both agree we need to decide where we want to live as we want our kids to have a stable home and not move around. I work at a council and earn £35K. It’s a great place to work and I don’t want to leave. I also will be starting a second consulting job soon earning an additional £10K. My OH is studying p/t and earns £20K. I want to move closer to work most likely Purley renting first and then buying when we can afford too. OH doesn’t think we will ever be able to buy anything in Croydon/London and he wants to move to Wales where his parents are as it’s cheaper and they can help out with any kids. I’m from the Caribbean originally and I’ve been living in London for 15 years and made it my home and I don’t really want to start over in another new plus. Hi Plus I feel like our mixed race kids would fit in better in London and I love my job. I know Wales makes more sense financially but I can’t bring myself to agree to it and its now causing arguments....

@GentleParent

I haven't 'gone after ' anybody.

There are many more job opportunities in London there is NO dispute about that.

But in terms of jobs/ houses/ lifestyle on OPs budget I think she would have a better time in Cardiff/Bristol ON HER BUDGET. which is kind of the issue.

You can argue the amount of museums, theatres etc till the cows come home.
But if you live an hours away in a tiny flat and work all hours stretching your income, you're not going to get much out of them.

Cardiff and Bristol both have loads of culture and jobs ( Cardiff particularly ) for a small city. I'm not saying OPs future kids will WORK there, 🤷‍♀️ but I'm saying they can have ALL the same enrichment growing up. It's there if you want it.

I do NOT think OP should move to Abercarn.

Good luck op, you sound very sensible and grounded. Bristol is lovely, although your money would go further in Wales , Bristol also seems that bit closer to london. It's a vibrant and diverse city with a great sense on community (to an outsider) and easy access to many beautiful places.

@sleepingpup - It's not just job opportunities. It's the incredible variety of wider enrichment as children grow up - especially for teenagers. All of which is accessible by public transport. You can't get ALL of the same enrichment outside London - but I agree that you can get a lot of it in Cardiff or Bristol.

Cardiff is a fantastic city - friendly, positive outlook and punches way above its weight in terms of culture and opportunity. And of course cheaper. It might well be the best compromise option in the OP's situation.

Personally, I could not have made my life there - my job and my husband's job (niche like the OP) simply don't exist in Wales. (Actually - mine does now, as the industry has developed in S Wales - but it wasn't there when I graduated - it took another two decades to catch up!). When we get to the point where we can wind down work, we would certainly look at Cardiff / Bristol. But there would be things we would be sacrificing in that move - things you definitely cannot get outside a global city like London or NY.

I think it is true that London is a bit of a bubble to be honest. Speaking also as a “forrin” who has made London my home for over 20 years, it’s hard to put into words why I would find it difficult to adjust to life in another UK city. It’s not about how many museums are there, or this or that. I think it’s more that if you’re used to a major world city like London, it’s possibly less of a culture shock to shift to other world cities such as Paris or NY, than to move somewhere like Bristol or even Manchester, etc. I can’t put my finger on why this is exactly. Maybe it’s because world cities have a certain vibe in common, to the extent you could be anywhere. If you’re in Bristol or Cardiff etc they’re all fantastic in their own way, but there’s just more of a localised, distinctly British feel. Not that there’s anything wrong with a British feel and I love this country for many reasons, but I’m trying to explain how it feels different. Sorry if I haven’t articulated it very well, but I think this is why some people struggle to comprehend life outside London and it’s not intended as a slight on anywhere else. You either love it or you hate it and that fine. Having come from a rural town in another EU country, I know that returning there would probably finish me off and I genuinely think I would become mentally ill if I had to live in a rural location. I’m just not cut out for it and it’s a physical reaction. I actually feel dizzy and nauseous which I realise sounds dramatic and makes me sound like a loon but it’s like I’m slipping into the grip of black depression and the same feeling comes over me in similar areas in the UK, particularly in bad weather. But then other people feel stressed in cities, So it is what it is. Horses for courses. So what I mean is, it’s very easy to say, “Oh just move out and you’ll be fine,” but it doesn’t always feel like that, particularly to someone who wasn’t born here and has only lived in London or overseas.

@monkeycats - I think you articulated that very well!

I find NY / Paris / Berlin / Brussels etc less of a culture shock than visiting family in the S Wales valleys. The first time my husband and I visited NY (after 5-6 years in London), the main thing that struck us was how quickly we felt at home.

I know how to function in a global city and my habits have adapted to reflect that - eg. don't drive as public transport is so good, never have to think about parking, don't meal plan too far ahead as it's so easy to swing by a shop on the way home, don't have worry about what anyone thinks of us as it's all fairly anonymous and you're allowed to just get on with it, take it for granted that if I read about a cultural event I want to go to, it's happening in London, enjoy that the flagship store is my local store, expect that diversity, left leaning politics and tolerance are all the default... There have been days when I have started the morning feeling low-energy and a bit meh, and the sheer energy and zest of London has lifted me up. Of course - then someone rams into you on the tube, and you're furious... But that's the glorious roller coaster that is a global city! It's ALIVE. All humanity is here. And if you know the city well enough, there are pockets of tranquility and green space when you want them.

These seem like small things - but put together, they make up a lifestyle. I have no idea how to live in a rural area! I enjoy going on holiday in the countryside, but only because I know it's temporary. If I had to forge a life there, my anxiety would sky-rocket.

I know how to function in a global city and my habits have adapted to reflect that - eg. don't drive as public transport is so good, never have to think about parking, don't meal plan too far ahead as it's so easy to swing by a shop on the way home, don't have worry about what anyone thinks of us as it's all fairly anonymous and you're allowed to just get on with it, take it for granted that if I read about a cultural event I want to go to, it's happening in London, enjoy that the flagship store is my local store, expect that diversity, left leaning politics and tolerance are all the default... There have been days when I have started the morning feeling low-energy and a bit meh, and the sheer energy and zest of London has lifted me up. Of course - then someone rams into you on the tube, and you're furious... But that's the glorious roller coaster that is a global city! It's ALIVE. All humanity is here. And if you know the city well enough, there are pockets of tranquility and green space when you want them.

Gosh I live in a dead city and I never knew it. 🙄

I'm welsh and I wouldn't live there.
I have a welsh best friend from that area who has just moved miles to get away, their last words, get me out of this godforsaken place. He gave up a well paid job in Cardiff and moved into a bus to get away from it.

@SerenDippitty - The binary responses on this this thread are very frustrating. Saying that the rush and pace of London feels alive doesn’t mean that your city is dead. It means that I love London and feel invigorated by it. Why is that a problem for you? It sounds like your city has a different balance and hopefully you love where you have chosen to live as much as I love my adopted home.

I was just detailing the way my daily habits have adapted to live in a global city and agreeing with the previous poster that these small, quite intangible things can make it harder to move away.

It’s not a war! Lots of places are great in different ways. And we choose what suits us.

Rural Wales maybe cheaper in the short term but I really miss the London wages. We're just over a decade out of London and I don't think I'll ever earn what I did when I was there. Had we stayed, my salary would've gone up. Leaving was the wrong decision IMO.

So what’s your budget op?

I think too many people are projecting their own views on to the OP's situation and assuming a lot. As someone who comes from the Carribbean presumably she is able to "function" both in a city or with a quieter pace of life. She has already stated that her husband is willing to compromise with Cardiff or Bristol, and North/East Cardiff is a 20 minute drive from Abercarn so handy for babysitting and support so would make perfect sense.

Not all people have to be ambitious and driven, and want to work 70 hour weeks or be in senior roles. I got the sense that the OP's partner discussed being a SAHD for a couple of years in relation to what they would do for pre school childcare, not as a permanent fixture rendering him completely useless as a human being contributing to society.

My own husband isn't particularly ambitious (and grew up 30 minutes from central London FWIW!) but earns the average national wage and helps raise our children. He initially discussed being the one to stay at home when I had our first child but he wasn't cut out for it so I was the one who went part time in the end, and will stay part time until our youngest goes to school next year. I don't think he has ever accused me of being lazy and unambitious for making this decision though, but then I'm a woman I suppose it's acceptable.

Contrary to what's been repeated here, I and many other members of my family have never found difficulty finding jobs in this area. There are always factories, shops and restaurants looking for staff. Cardiff, Magor and Chepstow have lots of large distribution centres for Tesco, Aldi, Wilko's etc. not to mention call centres like Admiral who employ thousands, and new start ups like Monzo and Starling. These might not be the most high powered MN jobs but hey pay bills and are flexible. However, choosing to study part time and work at 30 doesn't shout unambitious to me anyway so I'm sure he could strive for more if that's what they both preferred.

Obviously this current situation could change workflow massively so it's all a bit up in the air anyway, but the OP did say that this was the very early stages of TTC and marriage planning so anything could happen in that time anyway.

I wonder if the enthusiasm for London would be as great if less money had been spent on the infrastructure. To have such an amazing infrastructure over such a huge area is pretty privileged.
I would imagine spending on London will stop now after the Brexit vote.

not just job opportunities. It's the incredible variety of wider enrichment as children grow up - especially for teenagers. All of which is accessible by public transport. You can't get ALL of the same enrichment outside London - but I agree that you can get a lot of it in Cardiff or Bristol.

Yes and of course you can't get the same enrichment in London in terms of easy and quick access to surfing, climbing, mountain biking, sailing and beaches. And I wonder about access to alot of sports, but the reality is kids need access to SOME enrichment not ALL enrichment.

And access is a huge issue in heavily populated areas. Which as always often boils down to income.

It's always horses for courses.

@EdwinMay - The opposite will happen, I’m afraid. The part of Wales the OP’s talking about has been propped up by EU funding, which will now disappear. The investment and infrastructure gap will only widen. I don’t revel in that at all. Despite living in London, I can see that widening inequality is a bad thing for the country as a whole.

@GentleParent you’re right of course.

The buzz of Cardiff city centre on an international match day is quite unique and not something you would find outside Twickenham or Murrayfield which are out in the sticks. I would really miss that. But it’s also within easy reach of the Brecon Beacons, Vale of Glamorgan, Glamorgan Heritage Coast and Gower peninsula and Monmouthshire. To me it’s the best of both worlds.

One thing that no one has mental I think is that an increasing number of public sector jobs in wales require Welsh language fluency

One thing that no one has mental I think is that an increasing number of public sector jobs in wales require Welsh language fluency

You’re wrong on both counts. It has been mentioned and only a tiny minority of jobs require any degree of fluency.

These seem like small things - but put together, they make up a lifestyle. I have no idea how to live in a rural area!

Sorry if I haven’t articulated it very well, but I think this is why some people struggle to comprehend life outside London and it’s not intended as a slight on anywhere else. You either love it or you hate it "

Posters have articulated their love of living in London which I suspect is similar to OPs partners love of living in Abercarn. They mention their mental health. Horses for courses. We are all different.

I think out of respect it needs to be taken into consideration that OPs partner has feelings too.

I don't they should move to Abercarn but I think they could find a good compromise.

There are places just outside Cardiff like Tongwynlais, Taff’s Well, Morganstown, Llantrisant, Miskin which will be cheaper but within equally easy access of Cardiff and Abercarn.

I also think OP’s partner will want his children to grow up with an awareness of the Welsh side of their heritage.

@ Dishwashersaurous “A willingness to learn Welsh” is enough in most cases. With the exception of a few roles, it’s largely a box ticking exercise - particularly in S Wales.

“I would imagine spending on London will stop now after the Brexit vote.”

Well I do hope spending does increase in other parts of the UK because the ramifications of this will benefit everyone and the gap has been too wide for too long. Definitely.

But as I understand it, the transformation of Cardiff into a City of Culture was largely based on EU funding, yet still, Wales voted for Brexit overall So what happened there?

I don’t think there will be any investment anywhere tbh. We’re probably heading for the deepest recession anyone has ever experienced. And with the nightmare that is Brexit still to sort out.

I agree with the sentiment that it's all about compatibility. I couldn't cope with rural living, others love it.

@SerenDippitty - yes, London obviously cannot rival Wales for access to stunning landscape. We live within a 15 min walk of a massive indoor climbing centre and a sailing reservoir in London, but if your passion is outdoor adventure sports, then Wales is heaven!

@monkeycats Turkeys / Christmas

Cardiff votes remain by 60%/40% but yes, turkeys and Christmas.