To not want to move to Wales?

[dgarcia85]

My OH and I live in SE London and we are about to start TTC. We both agree we need to decide where we want to live as we want our kids to have a stable home and not move around. I work at a council and earn £35K. It’s a great place to work and I don’t want to leave. I also will be starting a second consulting job soon earning an additional £10K. My OH is studying p/t and earns £20K. I want to move closer to work most likely Purley renting first and then buying when we can afford too. OH doesn’t think we will ever be able to buy anything in Croydon/London and he wants to move to Wales where his parents are as it’s cheaper and they can help out with any kids. I’m from the Caribbean originally and I’ve been living in London for 15 years and made it my home and I don’t really want to start over in another new plus. Hi Plus I feel like our mixed race kids would fit in better in London and I love my job. I know Wales makes more sense financially but I can’t bring myself to agree to it and its now causing arguments....

To be honest I'd be wary of a man that wants to move so close to his mother regardless of where the mother lived.

I agree. God forbid a person would want to help live after their elderly parents.

This attitude is in part why our society is fucked.

Does @peperethecat work for Croydon Tourism Board? Maybe you're trying to sell a property there?

No, I live in Paris as it happens.

Would it be him looking after his elderly parents or his wife?

No, I live in Paris as it happens.

I loved living in Paris. At the time it was a fair bit cheaper than Croydon too. The exchange rate has probably banjaxed that now.

Would it be him looking after his elderly parents or his wife?

Him, you'd hope.

What is hilarious about this thread is that everyone has honed in on this notion that the OP’s only option if she stays in London is to live in Croydon. In actual fact, the OP was talking about Purley which is in the BOROUGH of Croydon. The BOROUGH people! Haven’t been to Purley in many years, but as I recall it’s not bad at all.

I had to take DS down to some kind of adventure party recently and I was really surprised at how beautiful the Downs are around the M25 south of Croydon. I think the town was Godstone? It was stunning. Bluebell fields for miles. Gorgeous villagey places. It’s a bit further out but still easy to get in to Croydon, if you really must. House / flat prices will be cheaper and if this DH wants a more rural place for his kids, then it’s rural enough round there. We also drove to a garden furniture shop near Caterham (I think it was) and the town is nothing to write home about, but also not bad. The countryside around is beautiful - rolling hills and vineyards as I recall. I think it was Caterham, but I’ll check. The DH could do his rural SAHD thing there and the OP doesn’t need to give it all up to go and play happy families in the valleys with MIL & Co.

I loved living in Paris. At the time it was a fair bit cheaper than Croydon too. The exchange rate has probably banjaxed that now.

Ha. Definitely not cheaper than Croydon, or anywhere else in the UK for that matter!

i think your going to find it's about MIL & Co not the rolling hills.

Re, my 'sexist' comment. I wasn't generalising, there's no reason why a man cannot be a sahd, I was referring to the situation the OP finds herself in, with a partner who certainly hasn't stepped up to the plate yet.

I'm from the Valleys originally and the misogyny there (which still exists although it's better than it was) is one reason I left. I live in Cardiff which is better from that pov, but not perfect.I'm not saying London or anywhere else is perfect, either.

And the misogyny/sexism I still see comes from women as well as men... I have family in my home town, people are welcoming and friendly, but expectations are low and high earning career women few and far between or absent.

Everything points to him being a mammy's boy, and the leap for the OP between life in London and Abercarn would be huge, and once she's there, it's difficult to unpick.

I gotta say OP that it sounds very much to me as if he wants to be a sahp but actually it's his mum that will be doing the childcare while he does bugger all and doesn't work, meanwhile you will be working your backside off living in a place you hate.
Don't get sucked into this.
I know I'm a miserable old cynic but it all sounds like his life plan to me.

Another thought @dgarcia85 - join a local Facebook group for Abercarn to get a feel for the local culture before you decide.

[Paris is] Definitely not cheaper than Croydon, or anywhere else in the UK for that matter!

About the same:

www.seloger.com/immobilier/locations/immo-paris-75/bien-appartement/?projects=1&types=1&places=[{ci:750056}]&price=NaN/1000&enterprise=0&qsVersion=1.0

www.primelocation.com/to-rent/property/london/croydon/?price_max=800&q=croydon&radius=0&results_sort=highest_price&search_source=refine&view_type=grid

OP, do you like croissants?

Surrey rural-ish commuter belt sounds like the worst of both worlds. Still nowhere near family and potential support from them, but no big city buzz for OP either. Without even the advantage of being particularly cheap.

My suggestion is that you both agree to not discuss this at all, whilst Covid is such a big problem. It's like trying to navigate a foreign country without a map or knowledge of the language. There is no way either one of you can come to an informed decision at the moment, because there is no accurate information anyone can give you, beyond a few weeks and that is not going to change anytime soon.

I think this is absolutely right. Appreciate it's hard, especially if you're at the stage where you're thinking about babies and buying. But it's impossible to make any concrete plans right now.

^This. Without wanting to stick the boot in, outer-outer london (croydon/purley, Watford, yeading, Dartford) struck me as the worst of both worlds. Most of the shitnesses (and cost) of london, but all the stuff that makes it great over an hour's travel away.

My OH used to teach in outer london; there were kids that had never been into the centre.

To those talking about the in-laws helping with childcare or OP/DH needing to look after them - OP said his parents are early 50s and still working.

@Gwenhwyfar but the OP did say her job was very niche up thread.

Yes I take the point about the commuter belt, but to put it bluntly, people live there if they can’t afford to live closer in or they want more space for their money. Beggars can’t be choosers, sadly. The fact is, OP is the main earner here. She is the commuter. So she gets to call the shots, I’m afraid.

If he wants her to go to Wales he needs to present her with his plan of what exactly he intends to do and how he’s going to support his family. He could start up his own business if he really wanted to make a go of it. Any signs from him as to a strategy for this move, beyond his mum helping out with kids? No.

@thedancingbear I was talking about general cost of living (food and toiletries can be extortionate here and petrol is now more expensive than the UK) rather than housing specifically. But your first link shows a two bedroom flat in central Paris for just over €3000 per month whereas for £3000 per month in Croydon your second link is showing large houses.

Our last apartment (before we moved the other side of the périphérique) was a 45m2 one bed in an extremely grotty part of the 18th and we were paying around €1200 per month, which is probably comparable with Croydon.

How do you see (both) your incomes going in the next year or two?
Be realistic, its currently £35k for you, but could get £10k more assuming consulting works out (is that regular?).
DP. £20K - doesn't sound like he can earn more soon - and you are TTC.

So, if you have a child you will either;

1. Pay for childcare
2. Your partner will be a SAHP

How's that going to square up with buying somewhere in Purley ? Do you have a deposit saved up? - the cheapest 2 bed on Rightmove is this;

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-77721232.html

A LOT has to change if you are going to buy a family home near London.

ATM, it seems like you need a long, difficult talk. You want to stay in London - but don't really have the means to do so if you want to buy a home.
He wants to go back to Wales, but appears to be crossing his fingers and hoping/expecting you find work.

You are both being unreasonable!

And I say this as someone who has been a trailing spouse for many years before we came back to London - NYC, Singapore, Sydney. But I went because DH was the higher earner by a long shot and it was common sense. I wouldn’t have dreamed of turning round to him and insisting we move to my deadbeat village in rural Spain and he could just give up the job that supported us and get on with it, while I would hang out with my mum and do a 5-year degree.

Yes I take the point about the commuter belt, but to put it bluntly, people live there if they can’t afford to live closer in or they want more space for their money. Beggars can’t be choosers, sadly. The fact is, OP is the main earner here. She is the commuter. So she gets to call the shots, I’m afraid.

Eh, no. She can decide she isn't moving somewhere but she can't unilaterally decide they're both going/staying anywhere.

I agree with you that some kind of compromise option is sensible (although DP doesn't seem to, which would concern me) but this seems much less suitable for what either of them want than Cardiff or perhaps Bristol would be. No buzz, no family, not really any more to be had on their budget.

Had a quick look on rightmove as I've only been to Caterham once, and that was the dearer part over 10 years ago. Most of what's available for the 280k someone reckoned they could borrow upthread is still flats, and not that many of them if you're under 60 and not a cash buyer. If anything it would make more sense to be in Croydon for that price, since one of them would actually like it there.

If my DH kept droning on about moving to some rural place, whether in Wales or anywhere, I’d be telling him to shush unless he could present me with his plan, business idea or the job offer that was going to make this move worth it. This is the approach I think the OP needs to take next time he brings it up. Put the ball in his court.

"To those talking about the in-laws helping with childcare or OP/DH needing to look after them - OP said his parents are early 50s and still working"

There was a question about how she would go for after-work drinks in Cardiff with the children being in Abercarn and I think in-laws babysitting (after their work) is a reasonable suggestion.