To say no to lending dhs family money yet again???

[yankydoodles]

Please don't judge me.

Ok so none of dh's family have a lot of money. Neither do we but we are saving well to her a deposit for a house.

In the last year we have lent money to his mum and all 3 of his siblings. All different amounts but probably around £3000 in total.

Dh is self employed and is currently putting his weekly tax money into his mums bank account who says she will pay us back in July as she is owed some money then. She currently owes us £1100.

We lent £500 to one of dhs brothers back in January with the agreement we would get it back 2 weeks later. We finally got it back from him 2 weeks ago.

Now dh wants to lend the same brother £4000! The brother wants to buy something - I won't say what - and dh has come up with the idea that we lend the money to the brother and ask for interest back so we gain something from lending the £4000.

Dh brother has 3 vehicles to sell and that apparently will easily come to more than £4000 so we should have no issues getting it back.

I'm fed up, I'm not comfortable with it at all. I've told dh how I feel but that doesn't seem to matter.

Our savings are in my savings account so dh can't transfer him any money - it has to be me that does it.

I have absolutely nothing against his family, I have a good relationship with them all but I'm sick of them trying to take of us all the time. We are trying to get on the property ladder and have a secure future.

Saying that, some of the time they don't ask - dhs just offers it to them. I think he enjoys helping them and being the one that's 'done well' in the family. He enjoys the boost it gives him and makes him feel like the man of the family.

Anyway back to the point - I'm not comfortable lending £4000 to him. When I voice my opinion all dhs says is 'well he his these vehicles to sell, we will get it back no problem with interest'

Then I say 'well what is we don't? What if he can't sell them? It took us an extra 3 months to get the £500 back we lent him in January so I'm not hopeful'

It's like my opinion doesn't matter. Aibu to say no to lending it??

Why doesn't the brother just sell the vehicles now and gets his 4000 that way?

THIS ^

And as for putting his tax money int his mother's account what if she doesn't pay it back - even for the most genuine of reasons eg the money she's expecting doesn't come through? What happens then when the Inland Revenue comes knocking on the door? What if (God forbid) she dies and you can't prove that debt wasn't a gift to claim it from the estate?

I'm not saying never lend a relative money - but never lend more than you can afford to lose - and be aware that it can really affect your relationship with that family member.

I have a sneaky suspicion that you're going to need those savings for the tax bill. Whatever you do DON'T leave yourself in a position where you can't pay it because all of your savings are lent out. I guarantee you HMRC won't regard that as an acceptable excuse for late or nonpayment.

If he's hell bent on lending out money then tell him there's a £2k limit & while ever someone has that money (which his mum currently almost has) no more can be lent out. Personally, I wouldn't even do that. Been burned too many times.

It's insane for your husband to lend his mother tax money. That just isn't available money. I know you trust your mother in law, but what if the payment she is expecting falls through or is delayed through no fault of hers?

A fool and his money are soon parted.
Dont be a fool.

Odds on MIL “gives” the money in her account to BIL so then your DH will be stuffed when it comes to paying the HMRC.

This is exactly what happened to me.

Just hope I don't get something along the lines of 'you don't care about my family' thrown in my face

I'd be inclined to point out that he doesn't seem to care about you and your future together. You can care plenty about people without throwing £4K at them.

What on earth is it that his brother needs the money for? If it's some investment, he should be looking at borrowing from official sources. If he can't because he's too much of a credit risk, that tells you all you need to know.

When his own mum wouldn’t blame you for leaving that says a lot.

Can he access the money on your phone? Or login to change the passwords?.

No way! If he cant be trusted not to give money away then you need to have three accounts. One each for pocket money you can spend as you please. And the rest in a joint account that is for savings and Bill's only- no expenditure from thi account.
You should never get money involved in friends or family.

Just hope I don't get something along the lines of 'you don't care about my family' thrown in my face

And you can point out he doesn't care about his.
Plus, BiL doesn't stand a dog's chance of selling any cars at present.

But it seems there's much more to it than just this, so it's clear your getting yourself prepared.

Ah, OP, you sound so fed up. I don't blame you at all. I hope your DH listens to you and is less of a dick about this... your MIL sounds decent.

What your H wants to do is madness. Putting his adult family first and above his wife and children is disgusting, frankly.
He would rather boast about the money he has than provide a home for his family, pathetic. His family are all parasites and know he is a mug.

Just hope I don't get something along the lines of 'you don't care about my family' thrown in my face

That's like a child howling "you hate me don't you?!" when you make them do the optional homework. Let it wash over you if you can. These words are just pointless noise coming out of his face.

apparently he needs the £4000 now and the vehicles will take time to sell

Oh well

YANBU.

I don't know why he enjoys lending money to his family to the detriment of his own, but no, I wouldn't appreciate it either.

If they'd ever lent HIM money and he was returning the favour, then maybe - but a "want" that costs £4000 is something that can wait until he's saved the money himself, or has sold his vehicles and raised the money himself.

Your H is being ridiculous.

Check with a solicitor about giving 50% of the savings to him. It may be that if the childcare is not 50:50 then you would be expected to keep more.

Have you got a new place to live in the pipeline?

I agree that MIL will probably end up giving the money that is owed to you, to BIL instead when it she gets it.

If you decide to leave, don't give him half of the savings. You have children and you and the children, who you say will have to move out, will need all of those savings to get you started again. Take all the savings for now. You can always give him his half later on, if you have to, or offset them against child maintenance payments. Please put you and your kids's needs first. I hope your DH listens to you this time.

When lending money to family the rule is simple. Don't loan it if you can't afford to give it away.

I loaned my brother money (more than you...) knowing full well he'd never repay me (and he hasn't, years later, nor does he seem likely to ever do). I do not resent him because when I loaned him the money, in my mind I was giving it away (I didn't tell him that though as I felt it would be good for him to feel some sort of accountability. Hasn't really worked, lol).

In your situation, as it's not even your own family but your in-laws, and your relationship with DH is on shaky grounds, and you do expect the money back, I wouldn't loan it.

I now have kids and saving to buy an appartment so I would probably be less generous to my brother if he asked again though I was happy to help in his time of need when I could easily afford it (and he was the only family member to stand by me and support me with some other personal issues I was having. Which, before anyone says anything, he kept on doing long after I loaned the money).

I think you are right to take the stand you are proposing.

What I don't understand is what you plan to do if you leave. Why would you give him half of what you have saved if his family still owe you both money? I'd be taking these debts to his family into consideration, as YOU won't see any of the repayments. I also don't understand why you would be leaving your house if you have DCs. Surely, they will need a roof over their heads more than he will?

Your husband's primary family is you and his children, he needs to start putting you first rather than playing Billy Big Bollocks with your house deposit

God no, it took your BIL five months to pay back £500! I wouldn't feel comfortable loaning out thousands to various family members either. It's your house fund / rainy day fund. What if you need it?

I'd try and have a calm conversation about why he feels the need to offer his family money and how it affects your own family. And I guess how you can't continue worrying that he'll try to take thousands to loan to someone at some point.

We have a friend like this –he's saved up for a house deposit numerous times and then an uncle or cousin comes out of the woodwork needing cash, and he stupidly gives it to them. He's given away thousands over the years and now, close to 40, is stuck renting. He's a nice guy and they use him horribly.

@Jaxhog his family don't owe us anything. They always pay everything back when they say they are going too. Never had to chase them except for this last £500 from his brother which we got back a couple of weeks ago about 3 months late.

His mum owes us but that's owed to him. It's his tax money which we always put away in a separate bank account. So the fact his mum his has tax money has made no difference to us financially and wouldn't be owed to me if I left. It would be owed to him.

I'd give him half because I'm a decent person I suppose. Take away the fact dh is shit with money, he does have some good points. He works extremely hard for our family. I wouldn't feel right doing anything other than splitting it fairly.

Oh my gosh your post has so many familiar elements in it for me.

My family (parents and brother) are DREADFUL with money. My dad had a pretty good salary during his working life and a final salary pension, and has had an inheritance but has absolutely no assets to show for it. My parents own nothing, no property, not even a car (they have a lease Motobility car).

My dad has been bankrupt once (own business failed with huge debts) and close to being so a second time. He has defaulted on countless loans. He used my grandmothers debit card (she had dementia) to buy himself things and pay for work on his car. He took my aunt's card details and bought things online. He logged into my iTunes account and bought albums without asking (obviously I can see them on my devices. No, I did NOT buy that Enya album myself).
I have a regular Noddle credit check to be sure he's not applying for credit in my name (he has asked my brother - also dreadful with money - to apply for credit cards in his name, for him to use).

He has asked to borrow money many times before (my husband and I both have very good salaries and I am extremely careful with money). I have said no many times and he gets in a huff and puts the phone down on me. One day I was feeling particularly guilty about saying no, and phoned my uncle (his brother) for a chat. My uncle confessed he'd lent my dad 6 months rent to pay upfront on a rental property (my parents dire credit rating meant that's the only way they could rent a house) with the understanding my parents would pay the rent each month to my uncle instead of the landlord for the first 6 months. He told me he only got the first month back then they stopped paying. My uncle was the executor of their mother's will and had to take the money my dad owed him out of my dad's portion of the inheritance.

My dad seems to feel no guilt about this. Never apologises. When I was a student I had to "lend" them my student loan one year and I never got it back. When I was getting married my mum had saved up to buy my wedding dress (not asked for, she wanted to do it) but ended up having to give the money to my dad to pay a debt. She was extremely upset and I've never heard a word about it from my dad (they didn't contribute financially to our wedding otherwise). When we were looking to buy a house, my dad asked me to be a guarantor on a rental property for them. I refused, knowing my dad's history of defaulting (I told him I couldn't risk my own credit rating when I'd shortly be applying for a mortgage).

Understandably I feel pretty crap about not helping them when we are financially comfortable but we have 2 DC and I REFUSE to risk their security to help someone who has no care for other people's money and has never, ever mentioned or shown any remorse for all the hassle and stress he's caused others with his ways.

I have no idea what he spends his money on but I always say, if I gave him £500 today he wouldn't have any left tomorrow. He can burn through money like nobody I know. He doesn't drink, smoke, has no hobbies and never goes anywhere (my mum is now severely disabled and he's her carer) so I don't think he has a second family (believe me I've considered it!). I suppose it could be online gambling though I've never seen any evidence (he's never been a gambler in any other way and shows no interest in sports/racing etc.).

Anyway, just to say, you're doing the right thing (and these aren't even your own relatives) but it can take nerves of steel to stick to your guns. I've learnt not to feel ashamed that I am the only one in the family with money. I did an extremely long, vocational degree with no family financial support in order to get a good career which is where ALL the money I've ever had has come from. I've never had any money gifts, inheritances etc, it's all saved from my earnings. I am generous with gifts to friends and family but will just not lend money. No way.

Oh, just to add, my brother used to work for my dad when he had a business (though my brother was officially "self-employed"). My dad was supposed to be putting aside my brother's tax dues every month into an account so he could pay his annual tax returns. When it got to that time, there was no money saved. My dad had spent it. I had to give him the money so my brother could pay his tax. What a guy.

It's a complicated situation to why I would leave - I'd move back to my mums.

I'd move because we are wanting to buy the house we are renting now. The landlord has agreed to sell it to us for a good price when we are ready to buy. If I stay here, he would probably put the house on the market straight away as there's no way I could afford to buy it on my own.

I've spoken to my mum about it, she's more than happy for me to move to hers for a few months, get my head sorted, apply what I need to benefit wise, get out of this covid situation and then start again. For me that's perfect, no pressure and have my mums support. I feel lucky to be able to do that.