to always feel on the outside looking in.

[lucyellensmum]

Honestly, i feel like a social bloody paraih. Its back to M&T time etc and i was looking forward to it, but today i got a reminder of how shit these things make me feel. Went to baby music, now this is very alpha mummy boden wearing cliqey and not anything i thought i would enjoy but DD LOVES it, so we go religeously. There is a cafe in the centre and i often go there for a coffee, why is it then that i am sat there on a table on my own with DD, whilst the place throngs with other mothers who seem to have so much to say to each other. Dont get me wrong, people arent horrible to me or anything, perfectly pleasant and friendly, i just can seem to get past the small talk and oh, how is DD stage, i do all that and they move on. This is like being back at school but worse, because now i am worried that my DD is going to mis out on forming little friendships as i can't seem to get other mothers to see me as anything other than the tired, scruffy looking mother who sits in the corner talking to her two year old.

It's hard to approach people who are eye to eye with their kids, and people who are reading, as their who demeanor screams

"I am busy, don't bug me or I shall snub you viciously in front of everyone, just like Julia in year eight did when you asked if you could sit next to her in History"

IMHO

Whereas actually, if someone had spoken to me I would have fallen into their arms and sobbed with gratitude.

Although, I was actually also using the paper to try to semaphore: 'Can we talk about something other than weaning or potty training?' Looking back, it would have been better to just say that.

know exactly how you feel

Yeah, lots of what appear to be snooty mums at DD's music class. I just smile at them all and be exceptionally friendly. I'm often ignored or humoured.

Still, if they're not interested in making friends, you can't force them.

Just keep your head up and keep smiling.

Hi, well I think we should all take comfort that so many of us feel exactly the same! Personally I so hated the two M & T groups I tried with my ds that I vowed never again so well done you for persevering.

Since having my ds I decided to join the NCT and started going to their regular weekly coffee mornings. Since they are exactly for the purpose of mums getting together with their children, I found all the group to be really friendly even though I consider myself shy, they make me feel welcome so maybe thats worth a try for you?

Also, your child will make her own friends when she starts school so you shouldnt worry too much.

after the music group do the mums in your group stay for coffee or go home? you could be brave and ask if any of them want to stop for a quick coffee?

if someone wants to then you could say ' shall we invite the others next week' and go from there - someone has to start these things

if any of them are already having coffee just go up and ask to join them - they will never say no - thats why they are there too!

the stuff about clothes/your childs speech etc is smokescreen - i dont think people ignore people for those reasons or prob have even noticed - its more about if you seem friendly and approachable or not

I agree we should take comfort that there are so many of us. We should have a secret sign to identify ourselves to each other. We'd never feel lonely again, we could all be misfits together and have laughing-loudest competitions with The Populars.
Seriously, there have been many occasions when finally accepted into the group that I have wanted to escape within minutes, swiftly realising that I would rather be alone with my thoughts than listen and try to contribute to this inane claptrap.
As I've said, groups of women can be strange, but then so can I!

So if anyone waggles their elbows chicken-like at me whilst putting their index fingers up their nostrils in Tesco's at Thornton Heath tomorrow morning about 9.15, I shall certainly stop for a chat.
Look for the wild-haired woman buying loads of cranberry juice (cystitis again).

I had to go on a bit of a mission to make friends when we moved city and I knew not a soul. My rules were:

1. Don't be choosey. Make friends with EVERYONE who makes eye contact with you. Yes, even the woman who introduces herself with a spiel about how gifted her child is and how great her husband is in bed.

2. Go to EVERYTHING. Accept every invitation. Attend every group.

3. Swap mobile numbers aggressively! I still do this now.
   Woman At Group: I think I saw you at Tescos on Tuesday.
   Broccoli: Really? Well give me your mobile number and we'll have to get together for a coffee. Here's mine. Have you got a pen? 0987 6543etc. Then I text a few days later to ask if they fancy a walk to the playground / a cuppa in town. If they don't after 2 asks I give up.

4. Don't give up. I had about 5 coffee dates with Gifted-Child/Good-In-Bed-Husband Woman, wondering what on earth I was doing eating M&S muffins listening to her tell me about her FABULOUS life and her AMAZING children when I could be at home getting the ironing done. She turned out to be - well, a complete weirdo, but she's a complete weirdo who I have got fond of and see quite often. It was through her that I met most of the people I know now, and most of them aren't weirdos at all and I've NO IDEA how their husbands perform in the sack.

This same thing happened to me as well. It feels like that because you are so used to talking to adults about work issues bc, then it all changes and dd is your life at the moment. Share your life experiences.

Top tips are

Get into all things on TV as it breaks the ice with most people, even the latest news.

Talk about dd but in a funny way, not my dd has sunshine coming from butt......

Ask what they did bc. What they used to do with their time etc.

Suggest a lunch date or coffee somewhere communal.

As someone else said the most unlikely people can become friends if you don't pick and choose or be judgemental.

ROFL are you my twin as I am also looked upon as the scruffy mother who makes no effort with personal appearance day to day, however, I can shine with the best of them at functions!

Seize the moment.

ps. I have to make new friends every coulpe of years usually as dh is army, so I know its hard.

Haven't had time to read whole thread but I had this problem at my NCT M&T group. We all started going at the same time as it was a new group, but still failed to get in with the 'in' crowd, who would sit and discuss where they were all going for lunch the next day right in front of me. Decided that who wants to be friends with people that rude? and have more or less stopped going. There was one mum I got on with really well, but she hasn;t responded to an email I sent her suggesting a meet-up; again, I just think, well, if you can't be bothered then your loss.

Instead I decided to make more effort to meet up with people I already know who have babies, even if it means travelling a bit. And making sure I stay in touch with friends without babies, as some of them will sprog at some point! I'm sure it won't mean outcast status for DS, as there are plenty of kids down our street he can run round with when he's a bit older, and I've never known kids to have problems chatting to each other in the playground.

I haven't read all the posts but I was reminded of somebody who ran one of the groups I went to when we moved to 100 miles from our old home to Essex where I didn't know a soul. She and her clique seemed aloof and intimidating and they all appeared to know each other really well. However, one day, after I had been going to the group a long time we were discussing how to make people feel welcome and she just said she found it very hard to chat to anybody new as she had lived in the area all her life and knew a lot of people who she was very comfortable with. The new people made her shy and she couldn't think of anything to say.

So the point I am trying to make is that these people may look like they are ignoring you because they don't find you interesting but the reality is that they are just as shy as you are. You just have to keep being seen in these places and they will forget you are new.

Actually that is another thing. Try and make sure that you approach other people who are even newer to a group than you and are in a similar position, i.e. they arrive not knowing anybody. I made a couple of friends that way.

Hi Lucyellensmum, haven't read all the thread but this is exactly, EXACTLY the same as me and my dd. We moved when I was 7 months preg to a more "desirable" area, I joined the NCT ante-natal class and we met up a few times but I've always had the horrible alienating feeling that I just don't fit in I know they all meet up with each other as well! I think part of the prob was that I thought NCt was a source of support but as soon as I appeared wild eyed and ravaged with tiredness and a colicky babe I just didn't fit into their perfect mum clique. Ditto baby music and swimming. I began to get so resentful and upset. Like you my huge and main concern was that my beautiful dd wouldn't have any little friends cos her "wierd" mum was such a social reject.It's eaten me up inside worrying about it.

I am a bit of a "bohemian" (called this by my mates not by myself) with a few "alternative" ideas and I just didn't fit it to the cheshire mum set round here. I too felt like I was back at school not fitting into the in crowd it was horrible. I've concentrated on the few of my mates who I used to go clubbing/gigging with who do have little'uns and like another poster said travel about to see people. I've learnt the hard awt that having a baby doesn't neccessarily mean things in common and peole ARE cliquey there's no doubt about it.

I'm so glad someones mentioned this on a thread I thought I was an alien! I have to say going back to work saved my sanity, I couldn't have coped with many more forced and lonely groups. However I bet there's more out there where you might mett some like minded ladies. Our NCT mag has so many it's difficult to know which one to choose!

My heart goes out to you best of luck xx

I feel exactly the same: chat alittle bit at m & t groups but it is only to a couple of mums about really polite baby stuff that never manages to move on, no one is interested in meeting up. Crap, innit? I want dd to have a litte social circle so she will grow up with friends! I don't think the fact that i can't be arsed to 'go glam' and look like stig of the dump has anything to do with it!

Rest assured, just because you don't feel like you 'fit in', your kids will not be social rejects! My kids are happy, friendly young lasses who always seem to get along with people, wherever they go - they seem to be a bit more 'discerning' maybe than some people but i think that's a good thing.

Any mumsnetters want to start up 'we're the oddballs' meet - ups?

It might be an idea for us social pariahs

Haven't read all of the posts but, I felt exactly as you do. Been in the town some years prior to dd's arrival but, worked in London full time so didn't do the school gate thing with ds. Found the NCT farking terrifying, was lucky to find a lovely M&T group and a post natal group (where all the mums knew each other from pre natal group).
I think the thing to remember is, finding people to connect with is hard work and to become proper friends takes time aswell.
I'm fairly bolshie (on the outside)anyway, so like Twig would come out with totally inappropriate statements, which soon makes people talk to you.
Keep at it, finding someone to talk to is a beginning, finding someone to be proper friends with is a longer and more 'organic' process.

Ohh and I am soo not boden mummy, more like charity shop chic mummmy

Right, i'm going to be very daring and do what none of us would dare do at m & t: any one want to meet up?

DD only 1 2 days ago and doesn't yet give a monleys but get knots of anxiety thinking about her not being invited to birthday parties when at school Stupid and neurotic I know.

I too am hypervigilant prior to meeting new people thinking I'm just going to spout a load of old crap so just stay quiet and smile painfully wishing I had a glass or ten of wine. But probably look aloof and snooty not making an effort to chat.

Like lots of posters just don't do small talk .

Can I join?

I think my problem is that I can't seem to get emotionally involved enough. I feel awkward with the small talk, but it seems sometimes like everyone is sharing life stories all too quickly and I don't give information away like that.

I did meet a woman who goes to the same groups as me and we seemed to get on well but I get the feeling that things are fading away because I don't share enough.

Anyone want to do a sort of wakefield norma no mates meet up then? ? ?