to always feel on the outside looking in.

[lucyellensmum]

Honestly, i feel like a social bloody paraih. Its back to M&T time etc and i was looking forward to it, but today i got a reminder of how shit these things make me feel. Went to baby music, now this is very alpha mummy boden wearing cliqey and not anything i thought i would enjoy but DD LOVES it, so we go religeously. There is a cafe in the centre and i often go there for a coffee, why is it then that i am sat there on a table on my own with DD, whilst the place throngs with other mothers who seem to have so much to say to each other. Dont get me wrong, people arent horrible to me or anything, perfectly pleasant and friendly, i just can seem to get past the small talk and oh, how is DD stage, i do all that and they move on. This is like being back at school but worse, because now i am worried that my DD is going to mis out on forming little friendships as i can't seem to get other mothers to see me as anything other than the tired, scruffy looking mother who sits in the corner talking to her two year old.

well twig, im not sure if it will help , but i'd LOVE to know all the dumb shit you've done, especially the really embarrasing stuff

Twiglett's approach sounds great.

I think this sort of thing at groups is about THEM not you, lucye. It is usually a lack of social skills I think. they don't have the skills it takes to make someone new feel welcome; they stick with who they know and that is it; and often I find people don't even GO to groups unless they can go with someone they already know.

It's very school playground stuff IMO and you should congratulate yourself for having the gumption to get out and go to groups for your dd's benefit.

And FWIW M & T groups bear NO relation whatsoever to real life and what happens there is NOT an indicator for the future of your, or dd's social life!

within 2 minutes of meeting someone on first day of nursery with youngest child when we were chatting about what to do with our spare time I said 'don't forget to book your smear' .. 2 mins and I'm talking about fanjos

my now best friend, we were having coffee, she was talking about cheese, can't remember why and I said 'you know I don't mean to be rude but this is possibly the most boring conversation I've ever had' .. .. mouth in gear without brain .. really, honestly didn't mean to say it ... we both paused and then totally lost it ... 'cheese' is now a short-cut for shut-the-fuck-up you boring tart

i would have honestly said i don't fit in anywhere, but i have had two different career paths that have sort of run concurrently and i found it really easy to make friends, i think it was because they just happened as day to day work stuff was done. There is a common ground and common interests, i have a small group of friends who i keep in touch with from work, we dont meet up very often but they are all childless and we just dont get the time to do it more than every other month. So, my problem really is just getting over that initial barrier. I suppose i might be fussy who i talk to even. But i try hard not to be, perhaps people think I amd the one who is stuck up, even though i think im the one being looked down on - does that make any sense

twig - can i be your friend

but only if you promise not to call it a fanjo

lucyellensmum, I could have written your post this morning. I went to a new M&T group, having been told there are lots of babies at this one. It's on Mondays and Fridays and according to the organiser who came to speak to me, the babies tend to come on Fridays!

I sat in the "baby area" with DD under a gym. She had a lovely time.. I left her for 2 minutes to get a coffee, during which time a marauding toddler tried to throw something at her. Nobody approached me except the organiser.

After we'd been there 45 mins DD demanded a feed and went to sleep. No point sitting on my own watching her sleep so I went home, wondering at the waste of £2.50 and remembering that this is the aspect of motherhood I didn't like last time

(You aren't me are you?)

I feel the same LEM I hate M&T group and I often find myself yawning alot as I find them so tedious. I do enjoy playing with DD and she doesn't help as at 17m she is in the 'buzz around the rooms at top speed bumping into people and things like a tazmanian devil' stage, so I rarely have time/ breath left to talk to other mums, then when someone talks to me I say very little get shy and tongue tied so that they think I am a right plank. On the way back I generally think of some witty conversation but by then it is a tad too late. I really could slap myself!

I think it is something about playgroups as before i never had trouble making friends. I also moved just as ds was 1 and dd was on the way so the good friends I had made through ante-natal were left behind. I still am pissed off about that

Blimey we are a bunch of social outcasts here

There is a lot of wise words here - sometimes it is easier said than done but if you feel you are missing out it is worth the rffort at least you than cannot blame yourself. I am sure you will find someone of like mind. My only worry is getting on really well with someone only to find our children can't stand each other I have nightmares about that - so I try to be nice to everyone iyswim

lucyellensmum sounds like my life too

sure you can .. if you can cope with the outbursts of drivel

have to say that if you make 1 good friend in every 2 groups you go to you're doing pretty well

bigmouth, i am so totally with you regarding the yawning, its like a bloody narcotic!! DD enjoys it and there are some activities which she doesnt get to do at home, cos i have absolutely no imagination when it comes to "doing making" so its good to go and get arty.

LEM makes concerted effort to appear friendly and confident at tomorrows M&T.

yeah but twig, to be going to 3 regular groups and only knowing the names of the organiser is a bit dire ient it. I wouldnt mind, but i have the memory of an elephant, and i never forget names.

hmmm, i think what i might do tomorrow is this, find someone i havent spoken to before, make a point of talking to them and introduce myself like this. "hello, i'm LEM, i am clinically depressed and on ADs, but i am a really nice person and if you make the effort to get to know me, we could be friends and no longer have to worry about play dates. Oh and my daughter likes to eat olives but i worry about the salt content" IF she doesnt back away looking scared then i may have scored a friend

If I could just patronise you a bit more:

Stand up - DON'T sit down (unless the music dictator tells you to, of course)
Don't cross arms or legs (looks defensive and 'closed')
Make eye contact with every bugger and smile, smile, smile even if you feel completely loony doing it.
Try to have something you could call a 'conversation' (ie, more than just 'hello') with at least five people.
If you get into a conversation with anyone, ask questions about themselves/their DCs. Be careful to let them finish their sentences. Try to mimic their body language.
If someone isn't being particularly responsive, don't take it personally. They might have a splitting headache; their hamster might just have died; they might be worried that you are not enjoying their company. Try to remember that most people feel socially anxious in these situations.

what do you think of my introductory schpeel then policy?

go for "Hello, my name's LEM, I find it so difficult to get to know people at these things, do you fancy going for a coffee after?"

Well, it might need some work - but I've definitely heard worse. A woman at the group I goes to manages to shoe-horn her unfaithful ex-husband, her messy divorce and the psychologist the court forced them both to attend into her introductory spiel - (not just with me - she does it with everyone). And she has managed to make friends. (They all think she is nuts though.)

Unfortunately, as the previous poster has identified, I think that quite a lot of effort is required to get along with people at these groups. You may feel the "outsider", but how many other people are also feeling like that and don't want to approach you because you are looking quite content by yourself with your child. Just be bold and go and chat to people. If it's not going anywhere after a while, make an excuse, and move on to someone else. Very easily done, as your child moves around or "needs your attention" . I attended these kind of groups and also ran a big M&T group. It was always an effort, but I did end up getting to know people. If there is someone you think you might get on ok with just ask them if they want to come back for coffee/ lunch after the group some day. It is much easier to get to know someone in the context of your own place over a cup of coffee than at a group. I had a few chats with a woman I thought I'd get on with and we mentioned exercise - I offered to give her a lift to the leisure centre with her toddler . Afterwards I thought "that was dumb - I don't know her at all", but she became one of my best friends. Hope it all goes a bit better this week

took me ages to write - previous poster being policywonk

Part of the problem with feeling a bit like scenery instead of part of the action is that when someone does speak to you then you can be so surprised that the right words don't leap to the forefront of your mind - so to speak.

So the advice to be 'pro-active and positive' is good - introducing yourself with your own well chosen spiel, means people will either like or not like you (can't do anyting about that) but cannot pretend you are not there iykwim.

I think I (subconciously) do not want to be noticed and would really prefer to be in the background but I also know that is not a good thing and I have to make an effort and be 'sociable'. Despite 'small talk' being my least favorite thing in the world.

There is a group of three uber women in the group I go to who seem to talk endlessly about shoes - I don't particularly want to get to know them - I am so a snob - there is no hope for me.... save yourself LEM I know you can do it!!

When people are being friendly to me, my instant thought is "Oh please don't let me make a twat out of myself this time!"

and that thought holds my tongue hostage, or sends it into irrelavant convulsions. So I either freeze, and leave the other person floundering, or rattle on like a socially inept machine gun and don't give the other person chance to respond.

ALL of which could be construed as giving someone the cold shoulder.

It's NOT, I never give ANYONE the cold shoulder, but I went to a meet up a few weeks ago and at the end of the day I could have kicked myself, I am so useless in Social situations!

Get yrself on a MN meet up for your area - you will already have someth ng in common!

I honestly have a split personality, the chatty no nonsense person known atm as InMyHumbleOpinion, and the other, socially inept me, the one who has to actually lead my life

I have struggled all my life with this. I can remember being 'the outsider' when the other girls were discussing make-up and fashion, even though I was just as interested.
It didn't bother me until the children were born and with ds (12) it didn't bother me at all as I was fairly isolated during his early years for other reasons.
However, with dd (5), I did try to make more of an effort. Often ended up in just the situation you've described. "What ARE they talking about? How come EVERYBODY knows EVERYONE except for me? etc etc"
Here's some strategies I've tried:
Getting early to M&T or whatever, helping to set up 'oh I'm so early I may as well help you instead of sitting about'...Beginning to chat to the next Mum who arrives. When things get busier you say 'oh I would love to hear more about that potty training strategy you mentioned, got time for a coffee after this?'
Walking up to the Gang and asking if anyone has [whatever latest bit of toddler equipment has come on the market]. You're thinking of getting one, what are their views.
Divide & rule. Approach one of the Gang and instigate a conversation (in the car park perhaps]. Get her name so that you can approach her in the group with a 'Hi [so and so] how are you'. Hopefully this might draw you in a bit.
I have to say I'm still a work in progress on this. Somedays at the school gate I feel like the belle of the ball, other days (like today) I am definitely Frederica No Friends. Women in groups can be strange. But then so can I!!!

bigmouth - you sound like me before we moved. I religiously took my Guardian to every playgroup and sat there reading it - and then went home thinking 'Well, nobody so much as spoke to me, the cliquey bitches!' Sounds stupid now, but it really did take me some time to work out that I was using the paper to shield myself from the rest of the group, and from the effort of making an effort.