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AIBU?

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Original poster

No tax credits for the third child. Does that mean some women will never be able to work?

282 replies

HowFurloughCanYouGo · 04/05/2020 13:30

I just wondered if someone could explain it to me. I realise I'm being a bit thick.

Imagine someone who is still on tax credits, not UC. They have 5 children, 3 of which were born after the 3rd child cut off date for tax credits.

Single mum and she wants to go to work for the first time since the first child was born (this is a completely fictional person by the way).
If they don't have tax credits for the third fourth and fifth child, does that mean she wouldn't be able to work? Because she wouldn't have money for childcare?

How does that work?

OP posts:
PumpkinP · 04/05/2020 13:35

I don’t get tax credits for dd as she was born a month after the cut off. I think you still get help with child care though.

Purpletigers · 04/05/2020 13:37

It’s unlikely that she’d be able to work if she has 5 children and the last three are so close together and so young .

Shoxfordian · 04/05/2020 13:38

Your fictional person should start taking fictional contraception

greentriangles · 04/05/2020 13:39

Contraception is free. 5 dc good luck working without a sahp or free childcare somewhere else!

IndecentFeminist · 04/05/2020 13:40

Or wait until kids are at school, pursue father for help etc.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/05/2020 13:41

That's kind of the point!

Odd that you assume it will be women... that too is part of the existing issue.

She makes choices, she makes them fully informed.

And the man/men in her life don't have any input? No CMS etc?

What an odd woman you imagine, not the norm, surely!

opticaldelusion · 04/05/2020 13:43

This will just turn into a condemnation of those who have large families and find themselves in hard times. Obviously things like being widowed or being made redundant never happen to nice middle class mumsnet posters. Everyone who needs tax credit support and has more than two children is automatically a feckless old slapper.

formerbabe · 04/05/2020 13:43

I'd imagine unless you're a very high earner or have lots of help, it would be incredibly difficult to work as a lone parent to five children..regardless of tax credits.

lifestooshort123 · 04/05/2020 13:44

As this is a fictitious person I won't feel mean saying this is why there is a cut off after 2 - anyone who wants more (and don't tell Greta), needs to be able to afford them. Glad we're not talking about you OP as then I would feel mean.

Original poster
HowFurloughCanYouGo · 04/05/2020 13:47

Literally not one person has answered my question.

I take it no one knows the answer?

OP posts:
SnuggyBuggy · 04/05/2020 13:48

It's only sensible to consider how you can best combine work and family. It would take either 2 well paid jobs or a relative providing care for both parents to work with 5 kids.

PumpkinP · 04/05/2020 13:48

I did answer your question. I said I believe you still get help with child care Hmm as in you still get the child care element

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/05/2020 13:50

Literall everyone did answer your qustion though. We just didn't think it was realistic so our answers were, of necessity, also a little vague!

Bluntly - no, she chose to have 5 kids and, at aguess fromt he lack of detail in your OP, 5 feckless fathers.

Or yes, if she wons the lottery, sells a couple of the kids, finds a sugar daddy for the 6th!

SouthernComforts · 04/05/2020 13:51

I'm not sure if the 3rd child rules apply to the childcare help available.. but the answer is the person would have to find a job that pays all living expenses + childcare, obviously. If they can't find a job that pays enough then they probably won't be able to work until the childcare years are past.

Floatyboat · 04/05/2020 13:51

Yes they can still work if they can afford it

HavelockVetinari · 04/05/2020 13:53

In the fictional example - if it was a result of changes beyond her control then I sympathise. Lots of people have larger than usual families and can easily afford it, but then death/illness/job loss means that they're suddenly very poor but won't receive help for more than their first 2 children. Yes, they should have taken out insurance, but in all honesty how many of us have insurance that's more comprehensive than a policy that pays out if one spouse dies? We certainly don't have income protection insurance, and I imagine people who do are very few and far between.

The other scenario I imagine is common is divorce where the children's father hides his assets overseas so only pays peanuts in child maintenance. Yeah, yeah, "don't have DC with a scumbag" - but most people have no idea their DC's father is capable of such cruelty until they leave him.

So it's not as cut-and-dried as "don't have children you can't afford".

Original poster
HowFurloughCanYouGo · 04/05/2020 13:54

Sorry @PumpkinP I missed that. I had a baby hanging off me. And a child banging a bloody instrument killing my ear drums.

I thought you got childcare for them as well.
But I applied for childcare for my third child after I returned to work after maternity leave (recently) and it said I couldn't get it for the third child.

OP posts:
RedskyAtnight · 04/05/2020 13:56

I'm not sure what your question is?

Of course she can work - she just needs to make sure that money coming in is greater than or equal to money coming out.

This means finding a job that pays enough, restricting need for paid childcare (by using family/friends for free or by working at home/evenings/only when they are at school) or a combination of both. Or waiting till the oldest child is about 12 or 13 and then putting them in charge of the rest.

Pinkdelight3 · 04/05/2020 13:57

No, she will not "never be able to work", because at some point all her DC will be at school and the older DC can help with the younger ones. Or she may have family who help out, or she may have other kinds of support, or be able to do evening/weekend shifts while the ex has the kids, who knows in this fictional extreme scenario! But generally, if a woman like this had a sudden change of heart/circumstances and had to work, then she could probably figure out a way to make it possible.

EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 04/05/2020 13:57

not as cut-and-dried as "don't have children you can't afford"

Five children is still a lot.

amazonslime · 04/05/2020 13:57

Something needs to be done about men pissing off and not taking any of the financial responsibility.

TinRoofRusty · 04/05/2020 13:58

If you can't earn enough money to support everyone then yes, you can work. I'd start training now, because even the tax credits are going to go poof in a few years as everyone gets migrated to UC, which is far less, and you'll be expected to prove you're looking for work when the youngest is 3.

NailsNeedDoing · 04/05/2020 13:58

She would have to work out what help with childcare she might be entitled to in her own personal circumstances. There’s more to consider than just what free money she can get off the government.

Could she get any help from children’s grandparents or ex partner for childcare, how much maintenance does she get, could she still afford childcare from her own wages because the oldest child doesn’t need it anyway or because she can work school hours?

There isn’t a simple answer to the question. But it may well be that she can’t afford either to work, or have had five children, depending on which way you look at it, and will just have to manage.

peperethecat · 04/05/2020 13:59

I'm guessing if this fictional person really wanted to get back to work she wouldn't have had five children.

Dishwashersaurous · 04/05/2020 13:59

Well if you plan and can afford to have five children I assume that you are in a well paid job and can afford childcare.

But to answer your question the cost of childcare for five children is obviously greater than the minimum wage so whilst childcare is required it would not be financially sensible to work.

Once not all children require childcare there will become a point in which the minimum wage is worth more than the costs and then work