No tax credits for the third child. Does that mean some women will never be able to work?

[HowFurloughCanYouGo]

I just wondered if someone could explain it to me. I realise I'm being a bit thick.

Imagine someone who is still on tax credits, not UC. They have 5 children, 3 of which were born after the 3rd child cut off date for tax credits.

Single mum and she wants to go to work for the first time since the first child was born (this is a completely fictional person by the way).
If they don't have tax credits for the third fourth and fifth child, does that mean she wouldn't be able to work? Because she wouldn't have money for childcare?

How does that work?

@midnightstar66

Depends whether this circumstance came about because she separated from her husband/partner or not

As said you get childcare and the free nursery provision, 15 hours a week at two, then 30 from 3.

Hopefully this will be thrown out when all the people who will be out of work because of Covid 19 realise that you can't live on benefits and that the same rate applies, even if being out of work isn't their fault.

You get help with childcare regardless of which child it is paid for, but only up to the max amount for 2 children. So if 3 children are in school and 2 in childcare she can claim the childcare even if the 2 in childcare are not the 2 she gets paid for.

On UC the max is 85% up to £1108.65 per month. So if you could get a nanny for £1,304 per month for all 5 kids you would get all of the £1108.65. You just have to have a job good enough to afford the extra £200 or more on your wages.

Before anyone asks i work for UC and have seen costs for nannies approved several times, in one case the nanny was more than the single parent earned but with the justification that it was still cheaper than individual childcare for each of the children and allowed nanny to look after the school aged ones over the holidays.

For the ones saying "don't have children you can't afford", it's a bit late to spout that don't you think?

For the ones saying "don't have children you can't afford", it's a bit late to spout that don't you think?

You have a much better chance of always being able to provide for your children if you stop after two or three than if you keep popping them out though.

@AnotherMurkyDay that's true although I was just answering from the information given which is someone out of work potentially moving in to work with a current running TC claim. DWP worked really hard to convince me I wouldn't be able to update my claim to include working tax credits ! Thankfully I'd done my own research and the folk on the phone at hmrc know their jobs a little better and it was sorted in minutes. I had a leaflet with my renewal 2 days ago which explained it's only the basic child element of TC you can't get after dc2 and that WTC and childcare are still available .

So after childcare and rent are paid you'd have 1000 left for bills, shopping etc. If my quick maths is right

It doesn't work, but it makes the sort of people who get all excited at the idea of making the lives of others harder happy. Endless studies were done showing that savings to the state would be minimal and far outweighed by the hardship and barriers the policy would cause, but they ploughed ahead knowing that because there's a certain type of person who really gets off on being able to do the "well don't have children you can't afford" thing.

Oh come on! I'm pretty left leaning and working class and all that good stuff, but I did agree with the two child limit. There was a cut off date a year in advance that was widely known about.

I agree it would have been utterly cunty to do it retrospectively. But they didn't.

So anyone suffering from the hardship and barriers they're now facing really does need to take some personal responsibility.

The old system was incredibly unfair. We had a system where anybody who didn't qualify for TC had to make careful choices about how many children they could afford, and anyone who did qualify knew that the more children they had, the better off they would be.

It really wasn't fair.

And I suspect the "well you shouldn't have had children you can't afford" voices would also say that to a middle class couple who had overstretched themselves on their mortgage and were complaining about not being able to afford their 5 children too.

I had 4 and got tax credits and it still wasn’t enough to work full time. She either needs free child care, sisters working around each other or she needs cash in hand work

www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Working-Tax-Credit/Can-I-get-help-with-childcare-through-Working-Tax

It's capped at £300 per week for two or more children.

Can we at least agree that the 3rd child should not be allowed to get NHS treatment? Same principle after all.
The way to teach parents a lesson is to remove the safety net from children.

Nrft but my not fictional friend finds herself abandoned with 2 kids and a baby. She has been planning to go back to work after mat leave before the dickhead left. He says he'll "help out" with the baby. That doesn't extend to 8 hours childcare 4 days a week. UC doesn't pay anything for a 3rd child, no childcare either I don't think? It's not a unusual situation for women to be in at all

I agree with Chock. Well stated.

We had a system where anybody who didn't qualify for TC had to make careful choices about how many children they could afford, and anyone who did qualify knew that the more children they had, the better off they would be.
@Chockablok well they were not better off as children cost more than the tax credit child spent to raise.

Thanks for that post Musereader that's really useful I'll pass it on to my friend.

People can carp about how awful it is, the 2 child limit, but it was known in advance and now it's been here for 3 years so anyone having kids needs to keep that in mind, that if they have more than 2 the safety net won't be sufficient.

Aldi, they were better off than people who didn’t qualify for tax credits though, that’s the point.

I've not bothered to read the full thread because the first page is slagging fictional person off but

You still get childcare for them just not the actual "weekly payment"

I only have 1 DC and don't get tax credits or UC for her. I am a lone parent and on a low wage just over minimum wage.

If you work part-time you can get some UC to top up your earnings but I didn't realise anyone could apply to get tax credits now.

No tax credits for 3rd plus children born after cut off. Theees still childcare vouchers, free hours, child benefit. Also exemptions such as if person was in a abusive relationship and was forced to have child, child disabilities, rape

They would claim childcare cant recieve working or child tax

You can only make a new claim for tax credits if you:

get thesevere disability premium, or are entitled to itgot or were entitled to the severe disability premium in the last month, and you’re still eligible for it

could she work a weekend job/bank staff on the weekends when the children will be with their dads?
I know this was meant well but I laughed so much at this a little tear ran down my legface. There are SO MANY women bringing up children without even a reliable weekend dad let alone a dad who actually considers paying for the upkeep of their own children it's actually not funny at all.
Also what LastTrainEast said:
I wonder how much condemnation middle class parents who have to be on benefits will get for recklessly having their 3 children and not planning for Coronavirus..

well they were not better off as children cost more than the tax credit child spent to raise.

I don't about you but I don't spend £70 a week on my second child every week + child maintenance which if father is working is usually £50ish a week.

A first child, maybe.

A second child, at a push.

But after that when you take into account sharing bedrooms, keeping clothes and toys the bigger one has grown out of... they're not that expensive. The biggest expense comes from childcare, and 80% of that was paid for too.

That's before we get into housing benefit and council tax allowance and uniform grants and free school meals which you could also qualify for.

All of which I completely agree with, btw. I am genuinely not trying to benefit bash. I'm just trying to prove my point that usually having more children meant more money in your pocket.

@NailsNeedDoing
Aldi, they were better off than people who didn’t qualify for tax credits though, that’s the point.
But they weren’t , they were less well off than people who didn’t qualify for tax credits that’s why they qualified for them.