To break up my marriage

[Forgivemenot43]

I've NC for this as it's really sensitive and I'm in a dilemma. Sorry it's really long so don't start reading if you can't be arsed. I've been married for 20 yrs to my absolute soul mate. We met aged 15 and have been inseparable ever since. We have 2 children aged 9 and 16. Life is on the whole good. However, here comes the bad bit.....
We are all quite highly strung and when we have a row it can get out of hand. This happens about 2 - 3 times a year. The eldest dd is very argumentative and can be at times vile, particularly towards me. Like many teens I guess. So it usually starts with us arguing then I lose my temper and yell and she yells back etc etc. This can then escalate to my husband getting involved then he loses his temper and yells and because he's angry he has punched walls etc and put holes in them. Then we all make up and it's brushed under the carpet until it happens again.
So the other night my dd was horrible to me and was going to storm out of the house. She said some really nasty things and it was all over something really trivial. Her dad then gets angry and demands she loses her phone for her behaviour. Only like has happened loads of times before, she won't give him it. She gloats and says there's nothing you can do about it as you can't touch me. When this has happened in the past he has just given up and her behaviour has gone unpunished or we've had to suspend the phone through the network. But this time he was so pissed off with her he grabbed hold of her to physically get the phone off her. I didn't witness this as I was downstairs but I could hear what was going on. She was screaming and shouting hysterically angry because he had overpowered her and I have now learnt hurt her. She stormed out and he went after her while I was comforting our youngest child who was in bed but saw it from his room. Dd came back and went straight to her room with her phone as he gave her it back. Since then they've kind of being ok with each other and like other times, beginning to move on and forget it happened. But today dd showed me her arm where he grabbed her. There's clear finger marks where he has grabbed her arm to restrain her to get the phone. I feel sick thinking about it. She's rightfully angry but doesn't want to tell the police or anything drastic to happen. Then an hour later we are all on a walk together and she starts having a go at him and threatens him that 1 call and he's going to jail. She knows that he knows hes done wrong and I don't think she'll forget this. So deep down I know I should protect my child and ask him to leave but I'm scared of the whole consequences of breaking up my family. I dont really think dd wants this but at the same time I know she is a child. Apart from these awful arguments we have a great life. We go on holidays the kids love and adore him and we are like a normal family. What do I do? If he left it would devastate my youngest and I think it would dd too. And of course it would me. I have no financial worry at all but it's everything else. Breaking up my family. Please can I have some advice.

I think you all need counseling to learn how to communicate better.
As for your daughter, the next time she threatens to report her dad, you should both make it clear to her that his behavior was wrong and that at16 if she wants to report him she has every right to do so and that you would both support her.
However, that shouldn't allow her to take his behavior as an excuse to continue with her behavior and to keep threatening to report him if she doesn't get what she wants.

Not having a good role model for dealing with anger left me with a lot of issues as an adult. However one of the best things I learned were the 3 rules of anger

1. Don’t hurt yourself
2. Don’t hurt other people
3. Don’t damage property.

Other than that go for your life. Taking up martial arts helped me get manage the ‘red mist’.

Its shocking that so many posters are blaming a teenage girl for being assaulted, and are completely ignoring the fact that she grew up in a clearly abusive household, where she learnt anger was the answer from her parents. The people saying she should be asked to leave the house are vile.

Family therapy and anger management. Better to go the round about route of network cutting of her phone. It’s good if everyone works on something - it does sound that most of the time you have a close, loving family. Hopefully therapy will help people not do rash things which hurts others and which they regret after.

You guys need some help. Individual and family therapy for a start.

It sounds like you’ve got a lot of great stuff to eork with, and with done hard work, you can come out better and stronger.

You need to start the conversations with your daughter and husband about possible outcomes depending on how they wish to proceed.

Good luck, you sound lovely x

anger management...hmmm. Does he get angry at work & punch walls?

Does he angry with men bigger & stronger then him?

Is it just a 16 year old girl who is ‘making’ him angry?

Will he move on to your younger child when the 16 year old gets out of dodge?

Some of the posts on here are so extreme! For crying out loud it's not abuse! He didn't, kick, slap her - he didn't throw her around the room. He quite clearly grabbed her very forcefully which of course is unacceptable but ending an entire family over one isolated incident is absurd (and yes before you all jump on me, it is isolated, punching a wall is very different from punching a person).

Those posters saying that they're in shock she's allowed her family to live like this for years etc etc.... you seriously must live a life of pure joy every single day if you would end an otherwise happy marriage because of one argument every 4/5 months. Are you seriously suggesting that if you've been married for 15 years (purely as an example) and your husband turned around tomorrow and got so angry he punched a wall, you'd kick him out, divorce him & take away his family, home & job?? That's what some people seem to be suggesting. Arguments in a family are normal. Yes punching a wall is extreme and not very nice but it's not MARRIAGE ENDING.

Back to your post, honestly, your daughter sounds thoroughly manipulative and now knows that by claiming it's abuse and that she can "get him put in jail", she is managing to completely negate any wrongdoing she may have done. She is not blameless in this and despite what your husband did, this all started because of her behaviour and disrespect and she deserved to have her phone taken off her in the first place, which you haven't done??? So all she has learnt is that manipulating the situation has worked and she's got away with speaking to you all like shit and had no punishment whatsoever.

Your husband needs to do some grovelling and some work to build back up a healthy relationship with your daughter, and he needs to make DAMN sure he never does anything like this again, and make it clear what steps you'll take if he does, but your daughter also needs to be punished for her original wrongdoing. Your whole family needs some boundaries but it's not un fixable. Please don't break up your family over this OP.

Punching walls / throwing things / physical contact leaving bruises are all examples of physical, domestic abuse.

I agree with mrsmummy111. What world do most of these posters live in?

I agree with mrsmummy111. What world do most of these posters live in?

A calm, nurturing one where fighting and violence such as punching walls doesn't happen. Ever.

Some households know how to comminicate with each other.

Well good for you gamerchick - aren't you special. Glad to hear you've never lost your temper.

I have no doubt that OP's family is also nurturing and calm most of the time. They have issues to address - of course they do - but OP seems very motivated to address them. My nurturing, calm mother once whacked me across the face for the sort of "talking back" the OP described. Not textbook behavior, and she never did it again, but I deserved it!

OP: you will get through this an emerge as an even stronger family! Get some family counseling or therapy - you can do it!!!!

But if the arguments are always screaming matches & he gets so angry/out of control that he punches the wall & puts a hole in it, well no I wouldn't want to live like that & the first time he did it I would have been disgusted & lost all respect.

How many years has he done nothing about it?

Blimey, not being married to someone like that hardly means that we are smug in our perfect marriages, does it?

Just that we expect more from our husbands!

@gamerchick I actually do live in a calm nurturing household, with a husband who has never punched a wall or got physical with me or our DS.

But do we argue? Yes, absolutely. Those of you claiming you don't are either delusional, liars, or are in the minority. Families argue, it's real life. If my DH ever did punch a wall, he'd sure as hell be told it's unacceptable. But would I end my marriage over it? Don't be so ridiculous.

I have slept on it (very badly I might say) and decided yes to counselling. Obviously this might not be possible immediately but I will find somewhere when we can. Then that's it. Absolute last chance. Thanks for all the answers. I appreciate it. I promise I'm not a monster. Or 1 of these gobby horrible mums some of you might be thinking who is angry on a daily basis. It is just some situations that I let her get to me and she is just a trying teenager at times. But I definitely realise that I can't carry on losing my temper and will have to deal with it.
In regard to dh, he has lost his temper whilst out and about over the years in situations where she wasn't even around so it is in no way he is only doing so to frighten our dd. She just winds him up like me only he reacts worse. The bruising is definitely an isolated incident and one he deeply regrets. Obviously if it had been deliberate I wouldn't need to ask about my marriage he would be gone. I hope it's not too late to repair the damage we've both done.

Well done OP! You CAN do it! But why all this 'last chance' talk. Let's be positive. You've got this!!!!!!!! Posting about this here on MN is your first step....

For those saying end marriage now, remember OP has also said she too has a temper. So the solution surely is not just husband out of the home but both parents? Perhaps handover the children to SS, get them into foster care?

I think as others have said you all need counseling. Individual then family. None of you three are blameless although obviously the adults should take more responsibility than the 16 year old. However, a 16 year old is not an absolute child ( we had an interesting discussion with my sis a few months ago about the concept of a child and childhood, how absolute it seems to be etc in the West but I digress). Soon she will be 18 and an adult (according to..). She can't just then switch over. She needs to start learning now boundaries, responsibility, respect for authority (I know. That's not the done thing these days but I still believe in it), being assertive but non-manipulative behaviour, healthy communication ( it seems you all need this).
I don't know whether you need to end your marriage over this or not. Therapy will help you clarify that. I wouldn't make a decision based on this one incident but the some of, and taking into consideration the stress lockdown is also having especially on already fragile situations. But definitely therapy for everyone, whether you stay together or not

Well done, OP. It might also be worth looking into parenting classes for both you and your DH. Doing these doesn't mean you're a bad parent, it just gives you access to some possible strategies that you might not have thought of. I did a parenting class after throwing out my alcoholic H, just so that I could support our DDs as well as was possible and it was an eye opener. Lots of classes let you self refer in, and it isn't judgmental.

If you can afford it, counselling is still easily available online, suggest someone BACP qualified.

Seriously he needs to release his anger by punching walls! That is not normal for an adult....
And he has assaulted your child... this is in no way her fault..,( and I do have teens )

How and in fact why do you expect your children to behave better than their parents...

You seem to be more bothered about the impact on your ds who has only had 9 years of this rather than your dd who had had 16 ...

Yes I do think your dh should go elsewhere until he has done something about his abusing...

And you should get some serious counselling/support about why you have let this go on your child's whole life..,happy moments in between do not make up for abuse

Maybe after that some family therapy but it is too soon now ...

Oh fgs he didn't punch, slap or otherwise assault a child . The 'assault' was trying to take a phone off a bratty gobby teenager who thinks it's first of all , fine to bad mouth her mother and father and then to go on to blackmail him.

The whole lot of you need family therapy and she needs some real removal privileges.

Agreed @disorganisedsecretsquirrel

*@bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg

Way to miss my point. Well done.

So he's "got angry" (violent?) When out and about too? As well as punching holes in walls?

That's not in any way normal, or a healthy way of expelling anger. Maybe he needs to take up exercise or boxing or meditation. It's terrible he's modelling that as a way of "getting out" anger to your children whether they see it or not. Not cool.

He definitely needs help.

You as a family need to find a way to avoid power struggles as then it only escalates things.

One more thing. You say you go on lovely holidays and have a great time generally etc - well I was a bit younger than your younger child when I witnessed anger, violence and aggression from my DF towards my older teen siblings, and honestly it's the lasting memory of my childhood. I can't really remember the good stuff, I know it happened but my clear memories are of the bad.

@mrsmummy111 one of the most intelligent posts I’ve seen

Do you know kids can be abusers too? [lists examples of violent children that are completely irrelevant to this thread]

How many bruises did this 16yo girl leave on anyone? Zero. The father, not the daughter, has been violent here.

The endless litany of what-about-female-abusers that FWR have to put up with is bad enough. Now the whatabouttery has reached what-about-children-who-abuse. You disgust me.

Your dh needs to tell her think about about social services and the impact on the family if she he doesn't stop acting like a brat abuser. FTFY

SunshineCake If you can't explain yourself clearly, that's on you, not the reader.