To break up my marriage

[Forgivemenot43]

I've NC for this as it's really sensitive and I'm in a dilemma. Sorry it's really long so don't start reading if you can't be arsed. I've been married for 20 yrs to my absolute soul mate. We met aged 15 and have been inseparable ever since. We have 2 children aged 9 and 16. Life is on the whole good. However, here comes the bad bit.....
We are all quite highly strung and when we have a row it can get out of hand. This happens about 2 - 3 times a year. The eldest dd is very argumentative and can be at times vile, particularly towards me. Like many teens I guess. So it usually starts with us arguing then I lose my temper and yell and she yells back etc etc. This can then escalate to my husband getting involved then he loses his temper and yells and because he's angry he has punched walls etc and put holes in them. Then we all make up and it's brushed under the carpet until it happens again.
So the other night my dd was horrible to me and was going to storm out of the house. She said some really nasty things and it was all over something really trivial. Her dad then gets angry and demands she loses her phone for her behaviour. Only like has happened loads of times before, she won't give him it. She gloats and says there's nothing you can do about it as you can't touch me. When this has happened in the past he has just given up and her behaviour has gone unpunished or we've had to suspend the phone through the network. But this time he was so pissed off with her he grabbed hold of her to physically get the phone off her. I didn't witness this as I was downstairs but I could hear what was going on. She was screaming and shouting hysterically angry because he had overpowered her and I have now learnt hurt her. She stormed out and he went after her while I was comforting our youngest child who was in bed but saw it from his room. Dd came back and went straight to her room with her phone as he gave her it back. Since then they've kind of being ok with each other and like other times, beginning to move on and forget it happened. But today dd showed me her arm where he grabbed her. There's clear finger marks where he has grabbed her arm to restrain her to get the phone. I feel sick thinking about it. She's rightfully angry but doesn't want to tell the police or anything drastic to happen. Then an hour later we are all on a walk together and she starts having a go at him and threatens him that 1 call and he's going to jail. She knows that he knows hes done wrong and I don't think she'll forget this. So deep down I know I should protect my child and ask him to leave but I'm scared of the whole consequences of breaking up my family. I dont really think dd wants this but at the same time I know she is a child. Apart from these awful arguments we have a great life. We go on holidays the kids love and adore him and we are like a normal family. What do I do? If he left it would devastate my youngest and I think it would dd too. And of course it would me. I have no financial worry at all but it's everything else. Breaking up my family. Please can I have some advice.

I wouldn’t want to be your neighbour. A screaming shit show three times a year.

You all need therapy before your dd gets a bf and has screaming episodes with him and any future dc. Look into better ways of resolving conflict with your dd. Your h and you are her role models.

Your youngest child must be terrified.

not be being horrible to you, obviously!

I agree with @ acidburn.

What a mess your family is.

If I had a DD who behaved like that I’d lose my rag too. Sounds like there’s been few consequences and she behaves how she likes. Now she’s got this over your husband things will be worse.

Erm... I don’t condone his behaviour but how are you going to protect yourself from an abusive teen on your own.

You loose it, you teen looses it, your husband looses it, you need family therapy, making it all about your husband won’t solve the problem, your girl is a spoiled brat, you and your husband are not behaving much better, if you leave him, you are next in the queue, you all need help before this gets even worse.

No, she shouldn't be horrible to her.

She shouldn't be physically assaulted as a result of that. Also terribly interested in what 'being horrible to her' was on the scale of being physically assaulted.

As to blackmail. She rightly pointed out that her father assaulted her to the point of bruising her, and that if she did go to the police, as any victim of an assault is entitled to do, he could be facing criminal charges. He would be very wise to take that on board. OP said that her daughter had stated that she didn't want to do this. But I very much understand her daughter stating this, hoping that her father might get the message that he really shouldn't do this again.

You all need a wake-up call. But be clear, you are the adults, you are the single greatest influence on your children to date. Don't look at your daughter for being responsible for everybody's poor behaviour, look at the adults first.

He needs to manage his anger better , then things should be ok, it’s his issue to deal with, if he chooses?

Dh doesn't punch walls to intimidate either imo, he does it because he's got a surge of anger and has to release it.

You actually believe he needs to 'release it' by smashing up your house? Really?

Why is he getting involved in mother daughter arguments, perhaps because both of you have lost control.

At this age arguing I find a waste of energy, calmly walk away turn off phone, router, whatever works best and tell the child that is it gone for a week, do not cave. Do not argue, what is done is done it is your home.

I wholly agree that some kind of family therapy may help. Hopefully your oldest daughter would agree to this.
I’d be a little wary of some of the comments on this thread... no one knows what it’s like to live in your home more than you do.
I’m pretty sure that most of us have punched a pillow, slammed a counter, hit a door at one time or another... the problem is when it becomes habitual or a natural reaction.
Only you know what it’s like to live in your home.
If you think that your family’s behaviours are becoming overwhelming then you need to act.
There are various family relationship services available.
Good luck OP .

Biggest mistake was giving in to her and handing the phone back.
It’s not ideal but it’s not abuse. Parents have a right to restrain their children, as do school staff.
The bruises may well be because she twisted and turned rather than excessive force.
Sounds like a good conversation about boundaries is needed. It’s tough times for everyone.

You all do need some help on how to deal with emotions better.

However, your 16 year old daughter sounds a horror. I won’t excuse your husband’s violence or way of dealing with it but she was clearly winding him up and being very disrespectful. The fact she is throwing comments out about prison too afterwards suggests she isn’t remotely frightened of him and is playing this to her advantage. I didn’t behave like this at 16 and most of my peers did- the ones who did were spoilt brats! MN infuriates me sometimes- most 16 year olds know what they are doing and know full well when they are being rude. A couple of generations ago you would have been working full time at that age!

*did not

I think you need a separate talk with them and see where to go from there.
Seems like you all have a temper but your dd and dh can't control themselves.
He should not punch anything let alone grab your dd. She is pushing your buttons and neither of you know what to do or how to calm things down. Things get out of hand very quickly.
Of course your dd can call the police. He'll probably get arrested. I'm not sure what the long term consequences will be.
It is a terrible situation made worse by the lock down.

We are all quite highly strung and when we have a row it can get out of hand
Thing is, YOU and your DH are the adults. The kids are not adults, the kids are kids. You behave a certain way, you adults model that behaviour to your kids. Take responsibility! I would suggest family systemic therapy for you all. There is a on online service called Healios - google it and find out how you can access a referral. It is very good!

'Rude' doesn't equal 'a horror'.

I think that there's an awful lot being assumed about what the teen did or said, because there's bugger all filler. About the initial argument anyway.

Once again, I feel OP has been quite slanted in her story, about her own input into the initial argument (very much glossed over, dd was just horrible to her, over something really quite trivial), for example.

If you leave marks on a person, you're leaving yourself open to criminal prosecution. Even if it's your 'vile brat' of a 'manipulative' daughter.

Who did she leave marks on? How many holes in the wall has she put in the family home?

Who do we think is bigger, stronger, holds the balance of power, here?

But apparently no-one can figure out how to effectively parent a 16 year old without leaving marks on them in this family. And that, of course, is the 16 year old's fault.

Your DH was way out of line as was your DD, she has learned to be argumentative from you and your DH. You all need to learn to walk away from each other when tempers are raised.

Many will say your DD is a child, well she is 16, she can vote and she can get married without parental permission. So not quiet a little child. She knows exactly what she is doing.

he's angry he has punched walls etc and put holes in them.

So what exactly do you intend to do whenhe's punched a few holes in you then OP?.

As he will one day, as sure as the night follows that day, but for you it might be eternal night??

Punching walls is physical violence. So he had been physically violent before this assault.

No, she's not a little child.

I have a 16 year old.

She's a bit feisty - a bit like her Mum. She has strong opinions, she knows what people are allowed to do to her, and what they're not allowed to do to her. She knows what she's allowed to do to people, and what she's not allowed to do to people. She knows the family rules and boundaries, and the consequences of flouting them.

At 16, you really need to realise you can't bully them like you could when they were six.

If you raised them right, this shouldn't be a problem too often. Because you have a good relationship where you can talk, argue (without holes in walls or bruises), negotiate, and compromise. You also realise that yes, they know what's what, and they will use it, if need be. Don't give them the ammo'. Although that might mean that sometimes you have to use some self control.

And if you haven't raised them right, they're reaping the consequences. Your DH is not the victim here. He's not the one with bruises. She's not the one that put holes in the walls.

So now, you've got a hail Mary - you get a last chance to fix this. I hope you can.

The parent should be laying down the rules as they are the parent. Until she gets her own house and pays her own phone bill, what the parents say stands and they have the right to live in their home without being verbally abused and having the luxuries they kindly give their child rubbed in their face. Most 16 year olds would respect this. The fact she does not is very disrespectful and yes, I will stand by what I said, it does make her a horror.

However, punching holes in walls is totally unacceptable and will be teaching her that to ‘kick off’ is the right reaction. I think unfortunately her behavior will be largely based on what she has had modeled, so unfortunately you are all in a vicious cycle and reaping what you have sown.

There are so many areas of this to unpick, it’s too simplistic to blame it all on the dad and say he has been abusive. I don’t think he has on this occasion and if he genuinely was abusive then she wouldn’t behave like that anyway. Please all get some therapy before this cycle continues with your youngest and your daughter’s future relationships.

Good god there is so much more to this that you've not said.

Your h is at the centre of it all. Daughter vile? Of course, teenagers can be bastards at the best of times, plus she lives in a toxic envornment.

Btw punching walls is listed as abuse.