To think 4 year olds just shouldn't be in school

[Belleende]

I will start by saying I know very little about educational theory, I just sent my DD off to school the term after she turned 4 as most parents do.
As the year has gone on she has begun to struggle. She hates the noise. She struggles with concentration. She is definitely taking her time tuning into the more social side of things.

We had been wondering if there was some kind of special need there. Now Covid has hit and we are the teachers. I have come to the conclusion there is nowt wrong with her, she is just too young to be in school.

She is a young 4 and summer born. She has the attention span of a gnat, and we have to fight to get her to do reading and writing . But she has a huge passion for knowledge and love of the outside, and her memory is amazing.

Not sure what to do when this is all over. Can't help thinking she would be better off home schooled until she is 6 or 7.

Anyone else rethinking the education of their kids?

I, too, left teaching YR, Y1 and Y2 after being horrified at what the government expect them to learn, retain and regurgitate in formal tests. The trouble is then, that headteachers (often with little-to-no experience of Early Years education) are pressuring the teachers to get results. My last Head tried to forbid me from allowing Y1 and 2 children to access and continuous provision (shared classroom and outside area) as set up for reception children. As soon as Y1 hit, that was it. Absolutely no more play-based opportunities. What I also find sickening is that children's reception results are used as a measure of progress throughout their whole time at primary school. If they thrive in the play-based, exploratory reception environment and achieve a good level of development, they are expected to hit all age-appropriate targets in every other year, despite the huge change to formal, national curriculum learning in Y1. Sorry, I've gone off on a bit if a tangent there.
With regards to age of entry, I have seen that academically it doesn't always matter. It's usually very noticeable in things like maturity, tiredness, social areas. However, not always. I think a lot of it is down to previous experiences. If they've been attending a nursery since they were babies or play school then they will be more familiar with that sort of set-up. If their parents have helped them to prepare for school and promote it as a fun and positive thing that helps. I've had mothers weeping and wailing dropping their children off on their first day as their baby is starting big school, etc, and I've had to tell them off!
There is evidence to suggest that the attainment disadvantage of summer-borns is relevant up until GCSEs. It shouldn't be ignored. However, I don't think delaying school until 6/7 is necessarily the answer. A huge reform of the school system so that 4-7 year olds are learning through play instead of being expected to do fractions and division and reliably use correct punctuation in pages and pages of writing is absolutely necessary.

Not true that in Scotland school starts at 5! Children born from start of term (mid August) until Jan 1st start at 4 years old. If they are born between Jan 1st til March 31st the parents can choose to 'defer' them too the next year. We did. Many don't.

I wonder what the official stats are on deferral - my DS has his birthday in January and there was no question as to whether he’d defer, tbh I don’t know any parents who chose not to defer their 4 year old with birthdays in January to March. I think local funding arrangements influence August to December deferrals but, pre-Covid there were plans to make funding consistently available for parents to defer 4 year olds. The thinking is that school isn’t necessarily a good thing at 4.

There are also areas where wholly play based learning is extended through P1-3, had that been available in my local authority I’d have opted for that for my children.

Don't get me started on school uniforms. I just don't get it. What's the point of them?

I am definitely for school uniforms. I think it's a leveller of sorts. Children haven't got to worry about wearing the same clothes to school every day or not being able to afford the latest trend, etc.
However, I think primary uniform.shoukd be joggers/leggings, a t-shirt and sweater. Expecting small children to faff about with pinafore dresses, shirt buttons and trouser fastenings is absurd. I know of at least three boys who would wet and soil their clothes because they couldn't work the clasp on their trousers. But on the whole, I think uniform gives children and parents one less thing to worry about.

I'm in Scotland my youngest is a February baby so I have the option of sending him at just turned 4 and a half or deferring him till 5 and a half , he was due to start nursery 2 weeks ago so not sure what we'll do as he'll only be at nursery for year now , though not even sure when nursery go back

prefer the Scandinavian type model where children don't start school until after their 6th birthday. I don't think 4 year olds need to be in school.

I admire the Scandinavian model. However, one of its strengths is that 8 out of 10 1-5 year old
children attend a preschool for all or part of each week. These schools are staffed by highly qualified teachers and are not merely childcare. The focus in these schools is on truly play-based learning helping children to develop the necessary skills to access education when they start at six years old. This model helps iron out the inequalities of experience that some children have at home. For example, oral language at five years of age is a strong predictor of success at GCSE. In 2019 a report by the National literacy trust found that many children start school with oral language 19 months behind their peers. Other children may have strong language skills but poorer social skills or physical skills. The Scandinavian model allows children to develop the skills and be school ready at six years.

I am no longer in the UK and tbh this was one of the many reasons I moved back home. I hated the way little kids are pushed into formal education.
We start formal education at 7years. Most kids here start nursery earlier but all those years are spent on developing foundation skills and lots of play. It's also spent on identifying any special needs a child might have and addressing them with the correct therapies or tools they need before starting formal education.

We also have a similar type of model as the Scandinavian. My ds turned out to have a range of sensory and other issues. He is 4years and now with all the OT and other support from so early on, he is going amazingly well.
I feel such a relief whenever I think how he doesnt need to start at 4years. My poor boy would have just went under.
I truly hate that children who should be playing and developing in other ways, are pressured in this way.

I'm in Scotland. My youngest can go to school when they are either 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 and even before they were born I had decided they would be going at 5 1/2.
For me 4 is too young. However I am more thinking longer term when they move to secondary and leaving school. I think that it is better if they are older when leaving school. They will have more options of uni, college, what jobs they could get.

Surely it depends on the child. My DS thrived at nursery, he went to a fairly formal nursery school from 2 and a half and loved it, so many exciting activities to be involved with and different adults to engage with. I could have kept him at home, I was a SAHM, but the opportunities he got at his nursery and play school (two separate settings) were outstanding and it still left plenty of time for relaxing at home, family stuff etc etc. He is an only child and he loved meeting and being with other children and was more than ready to start school at 4.

gingysmummy take advice from nursery. All kids will be in the similar boat. From what I've just read the smaller councils seem to be most defer the bigger ones less so.
You need to register them for school anyway, around Christmas time depending on council. Then put in deferral form. This can be withdrawn at any time up until the school start date.

Reception is not really any different from nursery so I don't get why many parents get so het up about it. The pace of learning phonics steps up a lot but that's because the majority of children are ready for it, they don't just continue teaching phonics at a fast pace if most of the children aren't keeping up with it!

My dds are both 'summer born' nearly 7 and just turned 4. 4 was the appropriate age for both of them to learn to read. I would not like them to miss this opportunity to learn at the right time for them. My 6yo is now ahead of most of her class despite being almost the youngest - this was not at all apparent when she was 4 but had I deferred her she would be really held back were she still in a y1 class now.

My DS started School at 4 and 2 months! He seemed very young at that time but settled in well .He has got an MSC from a Russell Group Uni now .The point with holding them back, is that they would have to join in year 1. when many of the children would have got to know one another and have a head start with the kind of things they learn in School

Black bear - yes, the fact almost everyone defers is an issue. It means those who are considering sending their younger ones must face putting them in with kids a lot older (and taller etc etc) so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I think they should certainly even out funding. It isn’t fair otherwise at all.

My DD started in September at 4yr10m. She has fallen apart but that's it age related but SEN related. Most of the children are thriving however I'm also aware that her school is very nurturing and child focused and less bothered by results

Fascinated they should actually just follow the law, Sept - Dec only get extra nursery funding for a reason.
That way kids who have ASD, ADHD, English as 2nd language etc etc get the extra time to mature rather than everyone maturing and them still left behind.

@Tfoot75 nursery/Montessori in Ireland does not teach ANY letters or numbers they use a play based/skills based curriculum which is focused on well being and giving the children confidence. It gives the the capability and confidence to learn once they start formal learning at the age of 4 to 6...but usually age 5.

It really does depend on the child but just turned 4 is too young. I'm in Scotland so it's easy enough to defer if needed.

DD1 is a leap day baby & started reception at 4.5 but we moved back home just after Christmas & due to Scotland not having a reception year she went back to nursery & started P1 at 5.5.

DD2 is a Nov birthday & has a mild learning disability and is socially & emotionally behind those her own age. She was also on the 9th percentile for height/weight so very small for her age (currently passes for a 12yo at 18!) so she didn't start until she was almost 6 and even then I think it was too soon but we couldn't defer her any more.

DS is a Jan birthday & went at 4.5 but he's thrived & it was definitely right not to defer him even though I wanted to but his school nursery didn't allow encourage it.

I couldn't imagine having an August baby & sending them to school at just turned 4 - that seems ridiculous to me!

Sending children to school at age 6-7 is NOT a Scandinavian model. It is practiced in many other countries. Scandinavians are not the inventor of this method so I don’t understand why people credit them for it.

I couldn't imagine having an August baby & sending them to school at just turned 4 - that seems ridiculous to me!

Well I did it 🤷🏻‍♀️. She has loved every minute of it and absolutely thrived. She is really school.

She is really missing school.

Blackbear so do I need to still register for school in January this year? Coming and also do a deferred form? I'm very new to this as my other son turned 5 2 weeks after he started p1

I couldn't imagine having an August baby & sending them to school at just turned 4 - that seems ridiculous to me!

You must be very lacking in imagination then. My dd started school last year at four and two weeks. She thrived from the start, made lots of friends and is already reading well. Why are people on here unable to see beyond their own narrow experience?

gingysmummy I would really be inclined to defer in your position. I’m massively in favour of deferral anyway - in my DD’s P1 class, the children who weren’t deferred are all struggling in various areas - but also with life being so heavily disrupted for kids at the moment, it will give him an extra year to allow normality to resume!

Gingysmummy Yes you registered them, and defer, nursery will keep you right. It's so they don't fall out the system and also so they have a place at a school incase you change your mind. A lot can change with a 3/4 year old between January and August.
I'll never forget registering my tiny 3 yo DS, HT asked "when does he turn 5" me "hes not 4 until next month"

Thanks so much I was going wait to register him till the following year had no idea you could do both. When ds was 1st born I thought yeah he'll def start at 4.5 but I just look at him And think he's still so young. And with missing out on months of nursery I've made my mind up he'll be going to school at 5.5 . He's very intelligent but it's the emotional side that worries me.
Also I have friend with teenage kids and they said they had wish they had deferred as their kids struggled at exam times and were to young for uni places depending on the course choice