To think 4 year olds just shouldn't be in school

[Belleende]

I will start by saying I know very little about educational theory, I just sent my DD off to school the term after she turned 4 as most parents do.
As the year has gone on she has begun to struggle. She hates the noise. She struggles with concentration. She is definitely taking her time tuning into the more social side of things.

We had been wondering if there was some kind of special need there. Now Covid has hit and we are the teachers. I have come to the conclusion there is nowt wrong with her, she is just too young to be in school.

She is a young 4 and summer born. She has the attention span of a gnat, and we have to fight to get her to do reading and writing . But she has a huge passion for knowledge and love of the outside, and her memory is amazing.

Not sure what to do when this is all over. Can't help thinking she would be better off home schooled until she is 6 or 7.

Anyone else rethinking the education of their kids?

I deferred both my DS's and they were 5y 8m when they started school (both have Nov birthdays)

I'm in Scotland so its different cut off ages, easier deferral, etc.

Actually only 1 was 5y 8m as it was still too soon for my eldest so I home educated him for a few years and he was just shy of 8 when he eventually started. Teachers have always praised my decision for both boys and have said it set them up well for school, in that they were more mature and more engaged in learning. Being that bit older has definitely helped them.

I wish I had done this with ds1 on hindsight, bit late now he's 29
He was the same, born end of August and slower development couldn't concentrate.
I remember one day he came home and told us this really long story about what the builders were doing, through the classroom window.
I asked him what others were doing and he said "oh, you know writing and that.
He gained all C's in GCSE and has done well in his own business.
Much later we did H.ed dd for a few years.
I'd say go for it, then if you want to try school you can do.

I think it completely depends on the child. My eldest was more than ready for school and thrived in the social environment. She’s always loved routine and has been independent from the moment she could speak. My second DD is the complete opposite and struggled much more with the transition. The other two aren’t yet at school so it’s too early to predict how it will suit them but I think it will be a different experience for all of them.

Every child is different and that’s why I think the current system works- if you know your child isn’t yet ready for school you have the option to send them at 5 rather than 4

I think some children are not ready at 4,5 even 6 and some are. My 3 year old will be going to school in September. Writing that feels ridiculous and I worry for her as a summer born but in all honesty, she is more than ready for reception. It’s the jump to year 1 and much more formal learning that worries me more. I wish they had a few more years of more relaxed education.

It depends what you mean by “school”. I’m in Scotland so they can’t start till 4.5 and most are 5 but even then at our school there are no tables and chairs in p1 till we’ll into term 2. It’s all play based and free flow building up gradually through the year towards table and chair work.

You are not being unreasonable - but, it definitely depends on the child.

My eldest went at 4y and 2 weeks. He adores it. He's dyspraxic, but he just loves people - enjoys being around them and talking - oh god the talking - (in fact as he's got older it's got harder because he has no interest or skill in sports, unlike the other boys who he is pushed to socialise with).

My youngest went to kindergarten at not quite 4, and whilst he's naturally more of a home-body with some social anxiety, he needs the structure that I don't naturally provide at home, and is perfectly capable at school - he's more like me - unless pushed out of the nest he'll never try anything.

But I can also see among his schoolmates, there are those that would probably do better with a bit more time at home - perhaps they don't have the self-confidence, or they need a bit more time to just play - but TBH, perhaps I've been lucky, but my kids schools have always been very good at noticing and adapting to the needs of individual kids.

I think it's way to early, they should start a year later. My summer born loved reception although he wasn't ready for formal education but he loved the social side, but it's like his heart was broken when he went into year 1 and he had to do work. he's now in year two and struggles so much and his confidence is crushed, he's even come home and told me he's a slow learner before ( obviously overheard from a teacher) breaks my heart that at 6 years old he is made to feel like this.

To echo @bookworm14 I was an August baby and thrived in school. I now have 2 undergraduate degrees and a Masters degree.
My daughter was also more than ready to start school at 4.
It's different for all children and I think it's up to parents to use their judgment as to whether their child is ready to start at 4 or to defer.

Laws on school start ages date from 1870 England and 1873 Scotland, age 5 to get 5 years of education before starting work age 10, leaving age was raised to 13 a few years later.

Scotland changed in the 70's to single intake, with 28/29th Feb as cut of date. Children ordinarily start between 4year 6mths and 5 years 6mths. With the youngest having a right to defer.

England seem to have changed to single intake much more recently. 31st August cut off. Child starting between 4years and 5year.

In 1870 2 MPs wanted a start age of 6.

Personally l believe children should be older starting formal school, but we have an economy based on two people working.

The best that I can see the Government changing is to make the early years Reception, Yr1 /P1, P2 less formal and more learn through play.

They will not raise the age for compulsory school because of the attainment gap. Poorer children less advanced starting school, that would be worse if they started later.

Depends on the kid, and on the school. My two are both summer born, and both were more than ready to start school at four. They loved reception and thrived. No problems with the transition to year 1 either. I seem to remember the biggest jump being from year 1 to year 2, when the amount of play based learning dropped significantly.

I’m in France where school starts at 6yo, but there are three years of preschool before that. Preschool tends to work really well on the whole. The DCs do a lot of Montessori activities, playing, dancing, sports. By 5yo they do a little bit of handwriting and sounding out letters but no one is stressed if a child doesn’t get it until they are 6yo which is the year they start learning to read. IMO it works really well.

I HATE the approach to schooling in the UK. The Scandinavian way of letting little ones have a childhood is so much healthier. They climb trees/cook over campfires/make music/hike up mountains/sail boats/build things with real tools/splash in the mud/learn about nature through living with it/make their own playthings, and all in a 'family-feel' environment. There's no formal education until they're 7. I won't even get started on how much better the schooling is when they have it.

The problem with flexibility is that it tends to be the middle class, wealthier parents who defer as they can afford to do without the extra hrs of free childcare. This exacerbates the attainment gap.

Legally kids don't have to receive an education until the term after they 5. I also have a summerborn and had DC gone to school (we home ed) I would have asked to defer a year (had we known about it) so they could start reception at 5 and they simply weren't mature enough to cope with full on school at just turned 5. Instead we decided to home educate which has worked really well for us and we've been doing it almost 7 years now!

I think the current pandemic has forced us all to slow down and really look at what suits our families best. For some kids that will be school, for some it will be home education. In either case the responsbility to ensure your child is educated lies with the parent, even when they attend school.

But yes, I think 4 is too young, and legally we don't have to send them, so we didn't. If we have another child at any point they won't be starting school at that age either regardless, we'll decide what fits them best in time for the term after they turn 5.

My DS is 4 but only in the preschool/nursery class as he is a December baby, so will be closer to 5 by the time he starts reception. Have to say I'm glad he is on the older side of the year! I do think he needs the stimulation as he's definitely missing it while we're in lockdown, but I think short days are ideal for him. It'll be a big shock to the system when he (hopefully) goes full time in September, but I'm hoping the teachers will be extra accommodating because of all this.

The problem with flexibility is that it tends to be the middle class, wealthier parents who defer as they can afford to do without the extra hrs of free childcare. This exacerbates the attainment gap

I agree with this. The middle class, generally more educated parents defer. Those who can’t afford an extra years childcare, or aren’t aware that deferral is possible, don’t. You then have the children of educated, wealth, engaged parents in a class with children from less privileged, less educated backgrounds who are potentially 16 months younger than them.

@fascinated in Scotland if you defer your child you will receive the extra early years funding.

I'm shocked at the amount of people saying their 4yo was bored in nursery. That really makes me think the nursery can't have been great.
To me, nursery is exactly where a 4yo should be.

I agree OP! I'm in Ireland where you can start them at age age between 4 to 6 (most opt for 4.5-5.5. Mine start after their 5th birthday. My dd has children in her class a nearly a year younger and one is a year older. It's not really based on age here. And the first 2 yrs are a shorter day (9.00-1.40) and more play based.

My dtds started 2 days after turning four and I was worried. Their main issue was tiredness - would fall asleep on the way home from school, wake up for dinner then go to bed no issue. They’re now 8 and I’m glad they started and we didn’t differ a year. Every child is different and only the parent truly knows their child, worts and all. Trust your instincts.

Generally I think it’s too young. They used to have two intakes in schools for that reason. My wee girl is summer born and even though she’s excited for school, outgrown nursery, adaptable enough and independent enough, I still wouldn’t have sent her on just turning 4 even if it was an option (in Scotland) - I feel like the youngest in classes are more likely to experience consequences of starting school too early when they go into high school. In the last couple of years I’ve known 3 people who deferred their February-born children, it seems to be more common at the moment to defer.

There just has to be flexibility around children’s individual abilities and personalities.

YANBU, while there maybe many mature 4 year olds many are just too young. I have a late August born 4 year old. Home school is impossible. He just can’t concentrate for more than 5 minutes. I keep getting lesson schedules from the teacher that make me want to weep.

I'm shocked at the amount of people saying their 4yo was bored in nursery. That really makes me think the nursery can't have been great.
To me, nursery is exactly where a 4yo should be

But as we of course all know, all children are different . DD1 was bored at pre school. She could read fluently at 3. She has never been much of a child for playing. She likes reading, writing, crafts, playing board games etc. She was desperate to get to school and has loved every minute. It was a great pre school, she just preferred school.
DD2 was perfectly happy at pre school, and is perfectly happy at school too.

A lot of it depends on the child but from my experience the parents who complain (a lot) about school being too much for 4 year olds were the ones who were summer born. We had several August born kids in Reception and the size difference and learning capabilities was so noticeable. The Mum who complained the most still sent her child in in the September when she could have legally waited until the following Summer term or deferred a year. You can’t win with some people.

fascinated in Scotland you get the early years funding automatically for the youngest two months, so February and January babies, however earlier than that nursery have to put a 'case' forward for it.

The last time I checked it out approx 49% of February babies and 25% of January babies were deferred. Similar percentages across all income levels. Slightly higher percentage of boys than girls but I think that is a boy thing.