To think 4 year olds just shouldn't be in school

[Belleende]

I will start by saying I know very little about educational theory, I just sent my DD off to school the term after she turned 4 as most parents do.
As the year has gone on she has begun to struggle. She hates the noise. She struggles with concentration. She is definitely taking her time tuning into the more social side of things.

We had been wondering if there was some kind of special need there. Now Covid has hit and we are the teachers. I have come to the conclusion there is nowt wrong with her, she is just too young to be in school.

She is a young 4 and summer born. She has the attention span of a gnat, and we have to fight to get her to do reading and writing . But she has a huge passion for knowledge and love of the outside, and her memory is amazing.

Not sure what to do when this is all over. Can't help thinking she would be better off home schooled until she is 6 or 7.

Anyone else rethinking the education of their kids?

Oh and I’m not worried about my 4 year old starting year 1 when she’s just turned 5 either. She’s moaned at me since they’ve been off school for not doing enough ‘proper work’ with her.

It depends so much on the child.
Dd1 winter baby was about right.
Dd2 winter baby was more than ready the year before
Ds summer baby was about ready summer term in year 1.

If you have a "send your child some point between these ages" you end up in the silly situation my friend has.
Parents want the girls to be seen as academic, so send them as soon as they're allowed at just turned 4yo.
They want the boys to be seen as sporty, so send them as late as possible so they have the age/size advantage. Boys normally go just before they turn 7yo.
If you think your girl isn't ready, or send your boy earlier, then they stick out and tend to struggle.
But having a form of 4yo girls and 7yo boys does not make things better.
They long for a situation like we have here.

@user3274826
All research says children are better learning through play and delaying formal academic learning until 7. It angers me that the national curriculum isn't in line with this research

All my DS wanted to do at 4 was play with the bricks, building, drawing ...and puzzles.
Thats what he does now, Oak timber framing, complex joinery ..nurture what they love doing best. 4 yrs IS too young for some children.Do what you feel is right for your DD

In Scotland they start a little later, most are 5 or nearly 5. 4 is very young, I think. It does depend on the child, but if yours is struggling then yes, consider home schooling, though that has it's own issues.

Yanbu. No 4 or 5 year olds should be in school with the absurd national curriculum we have in the UK.

At the same time, we need to have lovely places where 4 and 5 year olds can go and be kept safe and learn through play, without incurring fees, so that their parents can work and earn and pay tax to fund schools and early years provision (and everything else of course).

Summer born have it pants. Iv one September baby and he has done ok. My two summer born (still primary) seem to be constantly playing catch up

DS2 is not particularly young - turned 5 at end of Jan - and seemed well settled in school, lots of friends, good behaviour (at school!) and progress etc but I've been really struck by how much he loves the lockdown. He obviously much prefers just being at home with us (whereas DS1 who's 7 and much less sociable/outgoing really misses school). This has made me reflect too on whether reception is really the right thing!

My DD was certainly ready for reception - Feb born so bang in the middle of the year. But the readiness was less to do with age and more to do with the fact she’d been doing 4 full days a week in nursery since 12 months.

The child in her class I remember being most noticeably not ready at that age had not gone to preschool.

There’s nowt wrong with my DS either - he has a huge passion for learning, an amazing memory but struggles with noise and concentrating. He’s autistic, but there’s nothing wrong with him, he’s perfect in every way.

Year 1 sounds worse than reception. Bums on seats 🤮

Again, it depends on the child. The free-play of Reception didn’t suit my May born DS st all, he never knew what was expected of him. A timetable, a desk, and a chair suited him far better.

It completely depends on the child. My now 7 year old would have been bored out of her mind for another year in nursery. As it was, she actually struggled because the school day was quite short and she was fairly unstimulated. She was bursting with energy still at 9pm every night. She had been used to doing 8 hour days in nursery and I think school was a bit underwhelming. I couldn't have imagined keeping her out another year. She's 7 now and still has the attention span of a gnat though, so I think that's a personality thing. But also it has a lot to do with finances. It would be quite difficult for many people to afford even more years of paid full time childcare or to lose more time from work, and school serves a really important purpose for many families that goes beyond just individual children.

Yeah DD1 was much happier in year 1 than reception too.

You can defer start date into Reception until the term after their 5th birthday, for children born Sept-March

For Summer born children, April-August, you can also delay starting in Reception by a year, this doesn't mean they go straight into Year One, they can start a year later in Reception

This is true for England, not sure about other areas of the UK

Parents have a lot of choice and control over this, there isn't any pressure from schools to get children in. Parents know their children best & many schools will be flexible about hours etc. In my class I had a mixture of full time straight way, part time until lunch & some who started later. It all worked out & it's really about working together to give the children (and parents) a positive start to school

"Formal" doesn't really describe Reception in most schools, as already said the transition from Reception to Year One is a move into more formal schooling, but not always, depends on the ethos of the school

why start early at the detriment of the ones who aren’t ready?

You could just as easily say “why start late at the detriment of the ones who are ready?”. I have 3, all born at different times of year, and all very different characters, but all have adored school from the start and were more than ready for reception.

I work in a school and completely agree. Mainly also because my mum’s side of the family a from a different European country and my cousins all started school when they were six - I could read and write two years before before them (I was a summer baby) but they quickly caught up (in their own language obviously) once they started school two years later than me. I think especially with reading and writing in KS1 we spend 3 years teaching them things that actually if they started later they would probably learn in less than 2. It’s slow going because we start before they are really ready and we create great gaps and disadvantages for many in the process.

My summer born 4 yr old as thriving in school. He hated pre school. I was worried about him.starting school, but had no choice (work, single, lack of childcare) . He loves it. The thing he struggles with at school.is the social side but he is really enjoying the learning. And he's keen to learn at home too. It really depends on the child. Before he started, I would have agreed with you.

Scotland here and my son was 5 and a half and my daughter was 5.

I work in school admissions and this is a recurrent issue, and we have seen a huge rise in people wanting to defer their children entering school. I don't really think it's a comment on the quality of education on offer, but to a great extent, by some people getting the idea their Porcelain First Born are not ready for school. A reasonable proportion then go on to home school. But the option is there, and we administer it.

Lots of schools where I work have a structured approach to reception, and some even "stream" children, placing children who are struggling in a nursery style environment, and then moving them on, when appropriate. Reception in many of our schools is not a "formal environment, although we are aware some of the more "traditional" schools have children sitting behind normal desks and spending most of the time listening to teachers.

We do have a shocking number of untoilet trained children aged 4, with no SEND issues, whose parents expect our staff to change them during the day. Some are incapable of feeding themselves as well.

You could just as easily say “why start late at the detriment of the ones who are ready?

Because it’s less harmful to delay than to start too soon?

It’s all well and good keeping your kid home until they are 5 or 6 if you are an engaged parent who provides an enriching environment, but what about kids who are left to wander round the house all day with the tv blaring? It’s not going to be great for them to rock up age 6 not knowing how to hold a pencil etc. One of the points of reception is to even out basic skills so all children are ready to learn. Not fair to leave children out of learning for too long imo because it will be the most vulnerable who suffer. iirc American studies have found that preschool for derived two year olds has a measurable impact on their later educational attainment - the benefits of getting kids out of the home for a bit start early.

@ColourMeExhausted I am in Scotland too and my DS went to school at 4.

What we do have in Scotland is the option to defer but some kids don’t need deferred my DS would have been a fish out of water within a extra year of nursery. It all is very dependent on the child.

I’m a teacher and have two children.
One child is a Summer birthday and absolutely thrived in Reception and was bored in pre-school before that.
My other child will be 4 and a half when she goes into reception and will probably just be about ready. All children are different!

My daughter started last year, was October born so one of the oldest, settled in great mostly, top of her class (not so humble brag but it’s true) in many subjects, and I’d still have kept her back until she was 6/7 if I could. Her school is great, her teacher is wonderful but I just think it’s to young for any child. Since lockdown she’s become a lot... I don’t know, nicer, she’s not tired all the time, wants to help and chatty (some days wayyy to chatty!) and I’m loving seeing her every day at her best not the few hours between school and bed when she’s tired/hungry/overstimulated.

DS was born a few days before the cut off at the end of August but had been in childcare since he was 3 months old so it wasn't such a jump for him - he went into the reception class of the school where he had been at nursery from 3, and had already made friends there and recognised the staff and locations around the school so it wasn't so overwhelming for him. I think going from being at home all the time to reception would be a lot more stressful for a child who is not used to the hustle and bustle, because having to cope with the social aspects and then concentrating on school work is a lot to do at once if you've never done it before.

My dd will start at 5.5years, whilst her brother will start at just turned 5. Dd needs the extra time at nursery whereas I think ds will cope better. It all depends on the child but i think a 9 till 3pm day or till 4pm if they are doing after school clubs is too long for the average 4 year old.