To think 4 year olds just shouldn't be in school

[Belleende]

I will start by saying I know very little about educational theory, I just sent my DD off to school the term after she turned 4 as most parents do.
As the year has gone on she has begun to struggle. She hates the noise. She struggles with concentration. She is definitely taking her time tuning into the more social side of things.

We had been wondering if there was some kind of special need there. Now Covid has hit and we are the teachers. I have come to the conclusion there is nowt wrong with her, she is just too young to be in school.

She is a young 4 and summer born. She has the attention span of a gnat, and we have to fight to get her to do reading and writing . But she has a huge passion for knowledge and love of the outside, and her memory is amazing.

Not sure what to do when this is all over. Can't help thinking she would be better off home schooled until she is 6 or 7.

Anyone else rethinking the education of their kids?

We are in Scotland and DD is a February baby, so we will have to decide whether to defer her or not. She's too young right now for us to know where she will be socially and developmentally, but regardless I think we will probably defer and send her a year later. We are hoping to send her to a forest nursery so I think an extra year of that will be more beneficial for her and she won't 'lose' anything from waiting an extra year and possibly gain from it. I also would like an extra year with her at home as she will only be in nursery two or three days a a week. Although ask me about this again in a couple of years

Four year olds are all different. DT’s started Reception at 4 years and two months and they were so ready for it. They had been at full time nursery since they were six months and had seen older friends start school. They were so excited, loved breakfast and after school club. Took them the first term to accept they couldn’t go to school on Saturday and Sunday.

I think it is definitely a struggle especially if they have not been learning these things at nursery

Agree! I live in Scotland and my two and both spring babies. This meant the didn't start school until they were 5 1/2 and they were ready for it. Would not have wanted to send them any earlier.

Not true that in Scotland school starts at 5! Children born from start of term (mid August) until Jan 1st start at 4 years old. If they are born between Jan 1st til March 31st the parents can choose to 'defer' them too the next year. We did. Many don't. My children are thriving int he school environment and I know they wouldn't have done a year earlier but childcare is so expensive that it puts pressure on families to send them as early as possible. So the only children that are 5 when they go to school in Scotland are those born April to August and a few who defer. FAR to early imo. 6 years old would be more than adequate.

Posted early! My DD has behavioural problems and is delayed she didn't speak until she was almost 3! But she is brilliant at nursery now after a year of learning how to be there! But I knew I didn't want my 4 year old going to school so 'planned' for that... DD was born sept so she will turn 5 when she starts and DS was born Oct so he will also turn 5 a month after starting school!

School is about so much more than just formal learning. However great you are at teaching from home, you will not be able to replicate at home all that you get at school. There are obviously positives for both sides though

My nephew is an August baby & the youngest in his class. He really thrives at school & is top mathematician in the class. He enjoys school & loves learning. He's always wanted to go to school even if ill. I really do think it just depends on the child.

I think the quality of care is integral though. A child is probably better off starting at 4 if the pre-school care is poor and/or they aren't getting the stimulation and resources they need at home, usually because of financial or social reasons. For a child who has access to an excellent quality of pre-school setting and a home life rich with resources, the benefits of starting school might not be so obvious.

It does, as PPs said, tend to be a decision that's more accessible and/or attractive to middle-class, well-educated and financially secure parents. So that in itself perhaps means any research into the be benefits will be flawed as a result, if deferred children are generally getting a better start in life anyway, regardless of when they start school.

Definitely way to young. I hate that uk sends kids at 4/5 . It should be 6/7 for starting school like most other places around the world .

My son is a summer baby. Not yet 5 but started last Sept. He was more than ready for it. He had been with a childminder for a year and then pre school for another year. He has come on leaps and bounds and loves it. Even in this crazy time where he is attending school but not in his class or with his teacher and with a mix of kids.

No way, my dc is a Feb birthday, is 5 now, she was so ready for school. She was already bored at nursery, I can't imagine her doing another year of that. I'm impressed with how much she's learnt from two terms at schools, the foundations are all there. If you wait a year they just have to do all that later.

Depends on the kid. If you feel your child would struggle then you hold them back, then they're the oldest in the year below which will probably do their learning confidence good. But it shouldn't be the case that everyone us held back because a few struggle.

My eldest was a mid July baby and premature and I was very reluctant to send her to school at only just 4. I was told that she would be fine and she was, although her concentration wasnt great and we always got comments about her fidgeting. She actually did very well, but even as an adult she still fidgets! We read to her lots and did informal learning outside of school with lots of learning about animals and nature (dad worked on a farm), lots of baking and cooking at home, playing at shops etc. She also had very sensitive hearing and used to scream at loud noises such as drills, hand driers, lawnmowers, hoovers etc so much so that I worried that she had some additional needs. Give your DD time once she returns to school, social skills take time to learn, but continue to encourage her curiosity and learning.

For the people asking if I was a SAHM, my daughter went to a child minder from 8 months and a preschool the year before reception. She has always been hugely independent, never struggled with transitions on an emotional level. She is a real trooper and very much of the glass half full persuasion. Her starting to struggle came as a bit of a suprise.

Her struggling in school seems to be mostly the more structured learning around reading and writing in particular. And the noise, she has some hearing issues which will be sorted post covid.

Having read some of your posts about the transition from reception to year one, I am now even more worried. Particularly in current circumstances as she will be going back having not been in school for 6 months.
But I know that trying to do more with her than we are will do more harm than good.

What she has in spades is curiosity, and that will stand her in good stead, but I am worried this will be viewed as less important in year one.

Going to have to keep a careful eye on this and start thinking about what plan b is. Thanks for all your insights, really helpful.

We are in france where schooling from the year you turn 4 is compulsory. Our school has a dormitory and they all sleep after lunch. Our 4yo is quiet and not confident in French but skips into school most days, it has been great for her. It helps that there is no school on wednesdays so she only ever does 2 days at a stretch.

The other thing that was said, and this was interesting for me, was that it was social skills that needed to mature. Not academic readiness. And that high potential children were often the ones who needed extra time to mature , particularly more sensitive, thoughtful ones.

Looking back now I wonder if it was code for being able to withstand the rough and tumble of the playground....

I think it depends on the child.
I say this as the parent of an end of August born child.
He was literally just just turned 4 by the time term started,
He thrived, more than ready for it.
Being August born doesn't always mean you're behind.
Now at 16 and excellent GSCEs.
If your problem is with just Covid, yeah at the age of 4 they really don't need to be in school until the age of 5 anyway (UK)

Yes. Reception should be an extension of nursery

@YeOldeTrout In Switzerland pre school starts in the August of the year the child turns 5 (the region where I live anyway). It is more common here for a parent to stay at home or at least work part time. I don’t know any small children who go to day care full time because both parents work. The children are thriving. The system in the UK is broken, with households struggling on two incomes.

@Pickles89
That sounds amazing! Just how it should be.

DoubleFunMum Late August - December borns can also defer in Scotland. It’s not as well known and in some councils you have to argue quite strongly to get funding, but, legally, no child has to start school in Scotland until they have turned 5.

OP I completely agree with you and so does all the evidence www.upstart.scot/the-evidence/

I cannot understand how so many children are ‘bored’ at nursery age 4 - what child is bored of playing with peers?! DD by her 4th birthday could read, write, add and subtract and still we deferred her. She was never once bored at nursery - she was playing, exploring the forest, forming relationships, making art, making music, accessing toys, books and equipment that we don’t have at home, cooking, daydreaming....

Apologies double checked and it is September rather than late August.

fascinated - possibly it was pushed more in previous generations, DS1's handwriting is awful! And nobody seems to mind.

The social development is very key. Going back to the German system for a sec - late in the school year where the kids are 4/5 (so same as first year UK) all the kindergarten kids are assessed to see whether they are socially ready for school. It's mainly about what they can do for themselves, one "test" a friend's child was given was asking the parents whether the child was capable of walking alone to the bakery and coming back with a pretzel! If they are considered to be ready, then you have the option to send them to school aged 5 in the year they will turn 6, whereas they usually go aged 6 turning 7. Generally only children born earlier in the school year meet these criteria. DS1 didn't even though he is Autumn born, because his German wasn't good enough and they wanted him to have an extra year at Kindergarten, which was fine by me in theory, but actually during that extra year he was about a head taller than all the other kids, could barely get down the slide as his legs covered more than half of it and he was bored - but he was nearly 7, not 4.

There is also the option to hold a child back a year - but it's quite stigmatised by the kids themselves and they seem really self conscious about it.

I prefer the Scandinavian type model where children don't start school until after their 6th birthday. I don't think 4 year olds need to be in school.

DS is June so he started school 10 weeks after his 4th birthday and he seemed so young. I'm a single parent and need to work outside the home so didn't really have much choice but I think the whole system needs an overhaul.

I'm with you OP.
I think it's very early but then I started school at 6 so have experience of a different system.
I find the push to get very small children to read startling. Yet countries that start school later have better reading levels. Perhaps the early push puts them off...
Don't get me started on school uniforms. I just don't get it. What's the point of them?

When I discussed deferring with school the HT was of the view it was better to defer starting than risk having to repeat a year because of the stigma and social side of school.
I know with one child they slotted them into a P1/2 class so it was less obvious they were repeating but really kids know.
But ultimately only one or other can happen.

Interesting to see those stats on local authority deferral rates. Seems really odd that there's such differences across the areas. In areas where everyone is deferring it must almost defeat the purpose, you end up with a 12 month gap and kids at very different levels of readiness. Instead of a 15mth gap and kids a a similar level.