Teacher calling every week AIBU?

[TheGoldenNugget]

Just got an email from the school saying from next week they will call me every week to speak to me and my DS. I have a DS in year 2 and DD in nursery, the nursery called me last week to ask how we're doing (didn't even know they were calling) we spoke for a bit, they didn't ask to speak to DD and that was it.

Now I don't mind getting a phone call once to chat, but every week? Really? AIBU? Goodness knows how long this will continue, and they want to call every week!

Example conversation.

Safeguarding lead "how did your calls go today?"

Me "All fine apart from Jamie's mum who is struggling with internet access and mayawawa would prefer an email"

SL "OK, is there a reason for email contact? Do they need a phone providing?"

Me "nope mayawawa is autistic and finds phonecalls hard to cope with"

SL "no problem"

And its never mentioned again.

My point is that if NONE OF THAT has EVER been an issue educators ought not be flagging safeguarding for parents who have issue with new and insistent communications by phone and they ought to have an option to say no thank you or respond by e mail
I agree with you here. As long as there are no other issues before lockdown.

@theschoolonthehill

As others have said, as a teacher, I absolutely care about students. There are different aspects to caring, I grant you, with some more generalised caring - I wish all young people well & will do what I can to help them. Students in my school I have far more opportunity to help them. I will work out of hours to help the vulnerable/those in need, but I am on the safeguarding team, so you might argue that’s part of my role. But the children in my class, many of whom have been with me five days a week, 39 weeks a year for nearly two years, yes I care. Very much. I miss them, I think about them in & out of hours and I love communicating with them & confirming they are ok. The personal relationships there go beyond being paid. Yes, when they move on, we let them go (because we have to!) but we still care. I need the summer break always to ‘let go’ of the children moving on & pick up the new ones internally & it is emotionally hard to do that.

Yes, I love my son and that is indubitably very different. But I absolutely do care for the children at school & particularly & specifically my own class, or children who have been in my class.

Teacher, being paid, dedicated, wanting to check pupils doing ok, once a week? Do they have access to internet, how can they help, possibly vulnerable children?

Bloody hell, if they didn't call this would be an AIBU why don't my teachers care?

@noblegiraffe

I am actually a friend of whistle blower Terry Bryant who you will have seen from Winterbourne. He also works with Autistic people and advocates for them. What you seem to be missing is that actioning a safe guarding issue on parents who are of special characteristics due to MH or autism and who have a right to reasonable adjustment for communication is in itself abusive. So no don't level my understanding of safeguarding and how it works at me. I have spent many hours advocating for autistic families and families with MH who are being discriminated against under the guise of best practice.

Particularly in Education.

@emeraldshamrock

Thank you that is worth the effort for me. x

The schools I am involved with have added a whole new appendix to the safeguarding policy to cover these extraordinary circumstances we are currently in.

There is nothing normal/routine at the moment, and unfortunately this means that parents may need to adapt how they deal with school. I have to agree with @Hercwasonaroll if a parent was reacting in the way you have in some of your posts @mayawaya I would be concerned if a teacher didn't raise a safeguarding concern. Doesn't mean social services/the police would be banging on your front door, but I would want a note made. And yes it could mean that the school could communicate with you by email, but maybe they could arrange a phone call with the child, depending on age. I assumed the OP was simply asking why the schools were phoning, as obviously they wouldn't have been doing this when schools were properly open, not that it was causing then undue anxiety. OP I apologise if I am wrong.

I think it was in the news the other day that only 5% of vulnerable children are currently in school (and that is 5% of known vulnerable children). Teachers who care about their pupils worry about this. Schools are constantly working on how they can keep communication open with these families and also ensure they are not missing any other children who currently haven't had to be on their radar.

In normal times all schools have a procedure when a child doesn't turn up for registration. I think normally if there has been no contact from a parent to explain why the child isn't coming in, contact will be made from the school within 15 minutes of registration. If the school cannot contact anyone on the contact list quite often someone will go to that child's house to ensure everything is ok, and in most cases it is, but not always.

Now, the majority of children are not in school. Schools don't have this regular daily procedure to check that a child is ok, but these children who are at risk are still at risk, probably more so, and other children are becoming at risk.

Parents please don't begrudge the phone calls, it may help a child/family somewhere. And if you struggle with the phone calls, speak to the school.

@EmeraldShamrock

But like someone else said, there are children & families struggling now who were not struggling before lockdown. Struggling with exceptional circumstances, weren’t struggling with normal life. So the safeguarding checks pick up on those who are struggling now. How is that a bad thing?!

@EmeraldShamrock

The point I am trying to make here is not that the child should come second. What I am saying is that the child embedded healthily within a family who has an autistic level of excellent interior function is not at risk when parents prefer not to do phonecalls and ask for a different type of communication. Like not expecting wheelchair Mom to do an interview across town but rather at a local café. Reasonable adjustment that supports the family that has disability but functions well under circumstances that are not 'too challenging' by authority.

@ineedaholidaynow

if a parent was reacting in the way you have in some of your posts @mayawaya I would be concerned if a teacher didn't raise a safeguarding concern.

Would you raise a safeguarding concern if a wheel chair bound parent could not navigate the stairs into a section of the school without ramps?

Because asking an MH parent or autistic parent to take on sudden phone calls to people of authority who are essentially strangers outside of the house is not so different for people with those disabilities. And really raising a safeguarding risk over the way a previously exemplary parent can or cannot communicate is questionable to me as a disability advocate and SEN educator.

What you seem to be missing is that actioning a safe guarding issue on parents who are of special characteristics due to MH or autism and who have a right to reasonable adjustment for communication is in itself abusive.

Don’t be daft. You are misusing the word ‘abusive’.

Flagging a safeguarding issue here means ‘typing a paragraph saying X’s mum has said she doesn’t want phonecalls from the school and so we’re switching to email’ into an online system that sends this to the pastoral team and DSL. That’s it. It’s not ‘actioning’ anything. It’s not a black mark against your name. It’s not discrimination. It’s just writing something down so that others are aware in case they need to do something. Most times they don’t.

@mayawaya if a parent with autism said they couldn’t cope with phone calls, emails or any communication from school, as home was their safe place, what would you expect the school to do? Ignore the child for 6 months if the schools don’t go back until September?

@freddiethegreat

You sound like a very caring person.
I know approx ten teachers on a personal level (unrelated to my own children). From those, one cares deeply about their students, she doesn't have a family of her own and views the children as her family. She is so enthusiastic and puts so much extra time and effort into her work. . Five went into teaching because didn't get their first choice courses at uni but enjoy the job far more than they thought they would and appreciate the hours. They talk about their job as a job (quite rightly imo). I have no idea whether they are 'good' or not but they like their jobs and in my opinion when people enjoy their job, it shows. Three dislike teaching but they are not going to leave. I don't believe any of them are 'bad' teachers. In fact one of the ones who complains the most about teaching is the one that pupils and their parents like the most (private school and pupil and parent feedback is very important to the head).

For many its a job. Teaching does not necessarily mean they care about their jobs either less or more than other people in different careers. Personally as long as they teach the curriculum and aren't bitter about their careers, I don't see that as a negative thing.

I don't think @mayawaya is asking for no communication but communications by email.
In OP's defence my ASD DD got in a state waiting on her teacher call, she answered teachers question with a meekly yes and no, I was arm waving to encourage her to get chatting.

@ineedaholidaynow

'Parents please don't begrudge the phone calls, it may help a child/family somewhere. And if you struggle with the phone calls, speak to the school.'

Parents who have a disability and have an issue with these phonecalls are absolutely within their rights to ask not to have them and sort out a more accessible form of communication that works for them. Doing this does not remotely stop the school from 'helping a child elsewhere' who needs intervention.
But operating a blanket safeguarding flag ANY parent who does not do well with phone calls from authority is not the way to aim resources at the families and children who really need intervention.
MH and autism has a massive affect on 'external' communication and it is not a sign that an MH or Autist parent is failing when they do not immediately get with the NEW communication method that is intrusive compared to what they had previously.
Teachers need to be compassionate, listening and sensible when dealing with parents who are not taking up the phone calls and offer alternative modes of comms that can be taken up with more space and time for parents who need that space and distance in communication and social positioning in order to participate comfortably.

@EmeraldShamrock

Yes thank you. Alternatives that take up levels of ability and disability are always GOOD. Especially now in the midst of this. Families with MH and Autism do not need the extra pressure now EVERYTHING is different and a bit of communicatory goodwill and listening and asking, rather than instantly condemning or safeguarding will for sure help these parents to find their comfy place regarding communication with teachers and school. Thank you that was a very nice summing up.

@ineedaholidaynow

That's a really good question as it could definitely easily happen.
I think in those circumstances you'd have to get SS involved to do a knock and hello or if the school knew the child had an EHCP for autism ask the local autism charity to reach out. At least then the parents could have gentle support and find a way to connect with the school that was not 'immediate and awful' which it will be for many autistic parents who were previously managing social avoidance via child going TO SCHOOL.

I was particularly advocating for e mail being an acceptable weekly alternative for parents who find phone calls too immediate and overwhelming, but for sure if communication just goes flat, the family would need a friendly and none threatening bridge back.

And really raising a safeguarding risk over the way a previously exemplary parent

maya do you think the class teacher knows whether or not the parent was previously exemplary? I wouldn’t have the faintest idea.

Which is why these things need to be referred to the people who do have that information.

You keep mistaking a safeguarding referral which is merely the reporting of something unusual as marking that parent as a safeguarding risk. It’s not.

@noblegiraffe

'Flagging a safeguarding issue here means ‘typing a paragraph saying X’s mum has said she doesn’t want phonecalls from the school and so we’re switching to email’ into an online system that sends this to the pastoral team and DSL. That’s it. It’s not ‘actioning’ anything. It’s not a black mark against your name. It’s not discrimination. It’s just writing something down so that others are aware in case they need to do something.'

It's just WRITING SOMETHING DOWN.

Actually for the people for whom you are writing things down it is abusive, especially if all they have is a disability and you are treating them to the joy of shared data about their abilities and children and your opinions on their parenting as a result.

Would you like this if you had a disability? Would it be OK for you?

One of the parts of data and safeguarding that was hammered home to me is that you ought not to be writing ANYTHING about anyone unless there was a SERIOUS and ACKNOWLEDGED risk.

Otherwise you are quite literally abusing the rights of disabled people via your right to collate data. And if they ask for data disclosure or their families do...you have to justify your 'subjective' opinion.

I've seen that go pear shaped.

you ought not to be writing ANYTHING about anyone unless there was a SERIOUS and ACKNOWLEDGED risk

This is exactly the opposite of what teachers are told to do. We are expected to flag up anything that could be a concern because in the past when people have hesitated thinking that they are over-reacting or that something isn’t a SERIOUS and ACKNOWLEDGED risk so not worth it, children have died. Serious case reviews have pointed out the problem with individuals not raising issues so that pieces of a jigsaw could not be put together.

You are wrong about teachers’ duty of care.

My mum had severe mental health issues when I was a child. School was my safe haven and my teacher was the constant in my life, I know I would have loved a phone call off her if this would have happened when I was a child, my mum wouldn’t have coped with that and would probably have refused to answer the phone.
That didn’t stop me and my sister being very vulnerable though.

Here’s the appropriate bit from ‘Keeping Children Safe in Education’, the statutory guidance that teachers are bound by.

In particular “Fears about sharing information must not be allowed to stand in the way of the need to promote the welfare, and protect the safety of children.”

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/835733/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2019.pdf

if a parent was reacting in the way you have in some of your posts @mayawaya I would be concerned if a teacher didn't raise a safeguarding concern

I absolutely agree.

And shouting about how the children are absolutely fine etc etc etc doesn't make me wonder less about your capacity to actually see if they are not.
These are extraordinary times. What usually works may now not. We all need to be flexible and accept things we would usually not.
Whilst your inflexibility may be beyond your control, there is no way you can be positive it isn't impacting your children. Of course, you don't want it to, but you don't know it doesn't.
So yes, I do believe, for the sake of the child/children, a once a week call is reasonable.

And if there is a chance that a situation is impacting negatively on a child the LAW needs looking at. We often have to put aside our own issues for our children. Don't we?

general you

@noblegiraffe
We are expected to flag up anything that could be a concern because in the past when people have hesitated thinking that they are over-reacting or that something isn’t a SERIOUS and ACKNOWLEDGED risk so not worth it, children have died.

So you accept that teachers are expected to know and be able to distinguish a 'clear and acknowledged risk' from their own mad basis for normality that has previously flagged the wrong kids and missed the kids who needed flagging.

I reiterate my point 'A clear and acknowledged risk' Not your own loopy idea of what seems normal or not. Hint none neuro typical families are not 'inherently' at risk due to difference to you, nor are other disabled families, thought there is SOME risk.

How are you finding this so hard to grasp? Are you so uncomfortable or unable to assess ACTUAL risk that you are just leaping on anything remotely different to your idea of normal life and flagging it due to fearing you will fail safeguarding?

I suggest you do a bit of further training regarding autism, MH and other 'hidden' disabilities before you assume you are a gold standard for safeguarding and advocacy.

You are coming off sounding like someone who is so scared of missing some sort of safeguarding risk based in 'difference' that you are homing in on difference and different people AS RISK.

That is not going to do good work in our world of neuro diversity, in fact it is going to hurt it. Despite you believing you are doing 'All things right'

maya you’re not being rational.

A parent might shun phone calls from the school for various reasons, one of which is that they are hiding something that is a child protection issue. It is not the teacher’s place to make that judgement call as they do not have all the information that might be needed. So they refer it to the people that do.

Why are YOU finding this so hard to grasp?