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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Father ignoring my instructions re his granddaughter.

144 replies

Orphlids · 01/05/2020 20:42

Since adolescence, I’ve had a difficult relationship with my father. He is a classic narcissist. He’s extremely charming and charismatic, intelligent and interesting, but behind closed doors, unfeeling and capable of cruelty. When I was fifteen, we had an argument (one of many, typical teenage stuff) and he didn’t speak a work to me again until I was twenty one, despite living under the same roof for three years of that time. It was all very strange, it was as though I was invisible.

Once he resumed speaking to me, it was a couple of sentences a week, all very stilted and awkward. It improved slightly over the years, but things always remained awkward and uncomfortable, and we certainly never had any meaningful conversation.

My DD (now seven) loves my father. She adores him. He is so exciting, and fun in her eyes. I was dubious about allowing a relationship to develop between them, as I am aware of his unpleasant side, but it was impractical to prevent it, as I am extremely close to my mother, so when I would go to see her, of course my father was also in the house.

Three years ago, my parents divorced. Throughout their marriage, he had had one affair after another, and finally left to marry his latest mistress. Before my parents separated, this woman made my mother’s life very unhappy. She made constant silent phone calls to the house, and humiliated my mother at a social function by making it obvious to everyone that she and my father were involved in a sexual relationship. When my daughter was a baby, my mother spent three nights a week staying with us, providing childcare, to allow me to return to work. In my mother’s absence, the other woman would go to my mum’s house, and stay there with my father, leaving little clues to her presence. Her Facebook profile picture is even taken in my mother’s back garden. These things are the only details my mother could bring herself to share with me. There are many more things which she finds too humiliating to speak about.

When my parents divorced, I gave a lot of thought about whether to allow a relationship to continue between my father and my DD. Eventually, I decided, perhaps wrongly, that I would allow it. If I’d not had a child, I’d have simply gone NC with my father. He has surprised me by his consistent interest in seeing my daughter, and they continue to be close. However, he has made repeated attempts to involve his new wife, the woman who, along with him, made my mother’s life so unhappy for a time. I have made it extremely clear to him that under no circumstances is this woman to have any form of contact with my DD. I insist that all contact takes place at my house, but he has repeatedly invited DD to his house, although I’ve told him that won’t be happening. Of course, DD is thrilled at the invitation, and has begged me to allow her to go. He told me a few months ago that he thinks it’s time to introduce DD to his wife. I sent a very lengthy reply, explaining again that I was happy for him to continue contact but that I would never change my mind about his wife, and to please not raise the issue again. It all got a little heated, and he was left in no doubt of my feelings about things. I knew he would try again in the future to involve her, as he cannot accept someone else setting the rules, and wants to maintain contol of every situation. I should make it clear that I am equally angry with my father about my mother’s treatment - I certainly put no more blame on her than I do him. It is simply the fact that my father already has an established relationship with my DD that I allow him contact.

Tonight, he had a video call with DD. I was cooking dinner, and came in to discover DD engaged in a video call with his wife. DD has not been told who this woman is. I don’t know how to discuss the situation with her, as she’s too young to hear thr truth, but I don’t want to lie to her. Of course, if my father had stuck to the rules, DD would not need any sort of explanation until she was older and more equipped to deal with whatever I chose to tell her. I’m furious that my clear instructions have been ignored, although I’m not surprised. I’d appreciate some thoughts on the situation, and what others would do going forward. My main concern is DD’s happiness, but I’m not prepared to allow this woman any level of involvement. My father will never give up attempting to get his own way. I wish I could boot him out of my life, but DD would be devastated.

Thank you for reading such a lengthy rant!

OP posts:
Orphlids · 02/05/2020 13:01

@ChickenPoetry, thank you for taking the time to write your reply. It is such a comfort to know I’m not alone, but I’m so sorry you found yourself in a similar situation. I would be interested to hear more, if you do get the time to return with further details, such as whether you wished you had cut him off earlier. Thanks again.

OP posts:
B1rdbra1n · 02/05/2020 13:07

If someone ignores my boundaries then my response is to create a boundary they cannot ignore
If they step over my picket fence I replace it with a 10-ft high brick wall

ChickenPoetry · 02/05/2020 14:50

So ours is a very similar backstory - typical narcissistic behaviour while we were growing up. Extremely controlling, obsessive, violent etc... multiple affairs, with my Mums nose rubbed in each one.

Things escalated when he finally left for another woman when I was 15, only for my Mum to take him back when it didn’t work out. I spoke out against him when he was gone, and refused to see him. So when he came back he made my life a misery, and my Mum was so desperate to save her marriage, combined with being so under his control, that he got away with it.

I left at 18, had a baby at 19, and like you, maintained a relationship with my Mum. My Dad went on the charm offensive and built a great relationship with my child. My Mum finally snapped a few years later and divorced him - but I refused to get involved because I was never convinced she’d go through with it; we’d been dragged into it so many times over the years, and felt the repercussions too. It was a cycle that I was desperate to break for my daughters sake, so we maintained limited contact.

For many years that worked to a degree - he lived far enough away to not be a problem, and he kept his behaviour in check. The only real area of concern was that every time we saw him there would be a new girlfriend.

Then he lost his job and came to stay with us because he had no one else, and all the old behaviours returned, and escalated. Eventually causing a huge argument when the children were thankfully out with my Mum. He felt my DH was controlling, abusive towards DD, and favoured our DS. Out house wasn’t tidy enough, he disapproved of how we spent our money, complained about lack of foods that he liked and so on. (Somewhere he was living - almost for free).

For context - I work in an area where I recognise that girls with my background often end up meeting guys like their fathers and repeating the cycle. I can hand on heart say this isn’t the case for me. My DH is quiet, easygoing and very ‘vanilla’ compared to my Dad. Definitely not abusive. My maternal grandad was a lovely man who stepped up for us in many ways - and my husband is very like him thankfully.

When we asked for clarification from my Dad, the ‘abuse’ was actually us trying to prepare our 11yr old DD for senior school by practicing her new school journey, setting an earlier alarm, encouraging her to take on my grown up chores etc... and the disparity between her and DS was because he was 1yo and my Dad felt we did too much for him and not enough for DD.

Interestingly, he happily lived alongside all these issues for almost a year, and only raised them once he’d secured somewhere else to live. We haven’t spoken since, but as DD was 11 it was a difficult decision to make for her. We had an age appropriate conversation about it, and she wanted to remain in contact so we facilitated this in the most protected way we could. The older she got, the more his behaviour towards her changed. He was absolutely determined to get her to travel abroad with him - something he knew we’d be dead against - and she’s very much a home bird so just would have enjoyed it. Instead of being guided by her he just hammered away at it at every opportunity - much like your Dad is.

Essentially the crux of it is that he no longer had control - his relationship with DD was no longer serving a purpose. She was also coming to an age where she no longer measured up to his ideals, and unlike with us he was unable to manipulate her. Our whole lives we had never been good enough - the house wasn’t tidy enough, we weren’t academic enough, and so on - these were all what he attributed his behaviour to. When DD hit that awkward teen stage she was no longer the trophy grandchild, so she was also cast aside. It was something we had prepared her for and she’s luckily very good humoured about it.

I however, still feel pangs of guilt about him being alone and lonely and missing out - because that’s how I’ve been conditioned to feel. There is no position in this situation that is comfortable though - and this one is the lesser of two evils.

This has been epic - sorry. I’m happy for you to pm me if you want to chat.

NotKeenOnSwede · 02/05/2020 15:07

You need to just cut off, be as honest as possible with your daughter and she will just have to accept it in time and hopefully understand when she's older.

As for that vile cunt of a wife...

Sally872 · 02/05/2020 15:20

Cut him off. Otherwise when you set boundaries and have normal disagreements when she is a teenager/young adult you might find she runs to grandad. As well as the many other reasons.

From first post it sounds like you know you want to cut him off but worry is it fair to dd. It is best for her and as others have said distance, age appropriate version of the truth with gaps filled in if she asks as she gets older.

Ilovecats14 · 02/05/2020 15:33

I would cut him out now. He is a narcissist.

Ilovecats14 · 02/05/2020 15:35

Be honest with her in an age appropriate way of why she no longer sees him.

differentnameforthis · 02/05/2020 15:36

@HeyDuggeewhatchadoin No worries! Flowers

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/05/2020 16:09

I have to say as well that it is a good idea to be honest regarding the abuses that both you and your mother underwent so that she doesn't try to contact him on her own, later.

A friend of mine's mother was NC with her own father - my friend didn't know why, but when she was in her teens she begged for her mother to get back in touch with him, so she could know her grandfather. Soon found out why they'd been NC but it was a bit late then!

So she does need to know the backstory (in an age-appropriate way) for her to understand that you are keeping her safe from a person who, in the end, will do her more harm than good.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 16:14

@ChickenPoetry, thank you so very much for your detailed and fascinating post. I’m so glad to hear your DD has coped so well. You and you DH have obviously provided her with exactly what she needed to deal with the situation. My DP sounds a lot like yours. He is kind, honest, uncomplicated and down to earth. Exactly what we need to counteract the toxicity of our fathers.

@NotKeenOnSwede, ha ha - that is, of course, exactly how I feel about the wife. It felt good to read your post!

Thank you everyone, for your input. What a relief to hear from some normal human beings who were able to reassure me that I wasn’t irrational for wanting him out of my life. I feel a lot clearer about the way forward.

OP posts:
Windyatthebeach · 02/05/2020 16:15

Op my adult dc and I have an amazing relationship. I know my dd would feel guilty if I had continued feeling abused /controlled by my dps so she could have a relationship with her. In time your dd will understand why you ended their relationship. Remember she is too young to grasp fake people /abusers. In time she will respect you have put her mh first.

Oriunda · 02/05/2020 16:39

My siblings and I had a miserable time growing up, especially at the hands of our mother. The only reason we had still been in contact was because we wanted our child to have a relationship with his grandmother.

That said, I’ve been NC with her for over a month now, after one too many spiteful messages from her, and it feels good. She’s taken out the spite on my child, not sending them an Easter card and cash like she usually does. Child hasn’t mentioned her and I’m happy for it to continue that way.

She only likes children when they’re small, cute and love her back. As soon as they start to have their own mind, she switches off, like she did to us. I’m saving my child future grief by cutting the contact now.

PeterRabbitt · 02/05/2020 16:46

OP, I cut my mother off when my oldest was coming up to 6. My youngest at the time was just 2 and my youngest wouldn't be born for another year.

My oldest remembers her still, not with any fond memories really but it has been 5 years so probably just an overall memory rather than anything specific.

Long story short her problems with alcohol, how she treated me, her Jekyll & Hyde personality became intolerable and dangerous. To this day she will swear that I was a difficult child and a shit daughter. Make of that what you will. I was age appropriately honest with my oldest. He knows that his grandma made his mummy and auntie sad and that she put him and his sibling in danger. He asked after her a few times in the 6 months after but never mentions her now unless we see her in the distance then we both laugh about it and walk in another direction.

It has not harmed him at all and as he gets older he asks more specific questions sometimes. I never lie to him but do keep to the facts rather than pouring my heart out.

I hope you find the strength to do the right thing OP, I never had an adult to protect me from her when I was growing up but I was able to realise when that became my role for my kids.

B1rdbra1n · 02/05/2020 17:19

There is no position in this situation that is comfortable though
this is true ime, it can take more than a generation to manage away the dysfunction, it reverberates through time:(

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 02/05/2020 17:28

I cut my mother out of my DC's life when the youngest was 6 and the eldest 14
They were given age appropriate explanations of why we weren't going to see her
The eldest two are adults now and have chosen to remain non contact
I hope I have shown them how to try and have an honest open relationship with someone.
How to set relationship boundaries
And also how to look after their mental health and step away if a relationship is seriously detrimental
I hope I have spared them some of the damage I have experienced

Fanthorpe · 03/05/2020 09:16

@PeterRabbitt For me, you’ve summed up exactly the dilemmas that face people with dysfunctional parents face. The sadness comes through your words, especially about your childhood. You deserved to be cherished.

It’s not easy, the grief persists, but it stops the ongoing abuse. I wish you peace.

Princessbanana · 10/05/2020 22:43

How is everything going @Orphlids? Has he accepted the NC or has he set out out to make himself the victim yet? 🤨🙂

Orphlids · 11/05/2020 08:37

@Princessbanana, I’ve not heard from him at all yet. He is blocked from contacting my mobile, but does have my home number. When I ignored his calls for several weeks on a previous occasion, he resorted to calling the house phone and my partner answered, so was able to organise coming round without going through me. This time, my partner and I have agreed he is not to be allowed any further contact. I think it will take a couple of months before he realises I am serious. Then we may see him step things up a gear. Thank you for thinking of me.

OP posts:
FredAstaireAteMyHamSandwich · 11/05/2020 11:28

He sounds an awful man. You are doing the right thing.

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