Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Father ignoring my instructions re his granddaughter.

144 replies

Orphlids · 01/05/2020 20:42

Since adolescence, I’ve had a difficult relationship with my father. He is a classic narcissist. He’s extremely charming and charismatic, intelligent and interesting, but behind closed doors, unfeeling and capable of cruelty. When I was fifteen, we had an argument (one of many, typical teenage stuff) and he didn’t speak a work to me again until I was twenty one, despite living under the same roof for three years of that time. It was all very strange, it was as though I was invisible.

Once he resumed speaking to me, it was a couple of sentences a week, all very stilted and awkward. It improved slightly over the years, but things always remained awkward and uncomfortable, and we certainly never had any meaningful conversation.

My DD (now seven) loves my father. She adores him. He is so exciting, and fun in her eyes. I was dubious about allowing a relationship to develop between them, as I am aware of his unpleasant side, but it was impractical to prevent it, as I am extremely close to my mother, so when I would go to see her, of course my father was also in the house.

Three years ago, my parents divorced. Throughout their marriage, he had had one affair after another, and finally left to marry his latest mistress. Before my parents separated, this woman made my mother’s life very unhappy. She made constant silent phone calls to the house, and humiliated my mother at a social function by making it obvious to everyone that she and my father were involved in a sexual relationship. When my daughter was a baby, my mother spent three nights a week staying with us, providing childcare, to allow me to return to work. In my mother’s absence, the other woman would go to my mum’s house, and stay there with my father, leaving little clues to her presence. Her Facebook profile picture is even taken in my mother’s back garden. These things are the only details my mother could bring herself to share with me. There are many more things which she finds too humiliating to speak about.

When my parents divorced, I gave a lot of thought about whether to allow a relationship to continue between my father and my DD. Eventually, I decided, perhaps wrongly, that I would allow it. If I’d not had a child, I’d have simply gone NC with my father. He has surprised me by his consistent interest in seeing my daughter, and they continue to be close. However, he has made repeated attempts to involve his new wife, the woman who, along with him, made my mother’s life so unhappy for a time. I have made it extremely clear to him that under no circumstances is this woman to have any form of contact with my DD. I insist that all contact takes place at my house, but he has repeatedly invited DD to his house, although I’ve told him that won’t be happening. Of course, DD is thrilled at the invitation, and has begged me to allow her to go. He told me a few months ago that he thinks it’s time to introduce DD to his wife. I sent a very lengthy reply, explaining again that I was happy for him to continue contact but that I would never change my mind about his wife, and to please not raise the issue again. It all got a little heated, and he was left in no doubt of my feelings about things. I knew he would try again in the future to involve her, as he cannot accept someone else setting the rules, and wants to maintain contol of every situation. I should make it clear that I am equally angry with my father about my mother’s treatment - I certainly put no more blame on her than I do him. It is simply the fact that my father already has an established relationship with my DD that I allow him contact.

Tonight, he had a video call with DD. I was cooking dinner, and came in to discover DD engaged in a video call with his wife. DD has not been told who this woman is. I don’t know how to discuss the situation with her, as she’s too young to hear thr truth, but I don’t want to lie to her. Of course, if my father had stuck to the rules, DD would not need any sort of explanation until she was older and more equipped to deal with whatever I chose to tell her. I’m furious that my clear instructions have been ignored, although I’m not surprised. I’d appreciate some thoughts on the situation, and what others would do going forward. My main concern is DD’s happiness, but I’m not prepared to allow this woman any level of involvement. My father will never give up attempting to get his own way. I wish I could boot him out of my life, but DD would be devastated.

Thank you for reading such a lengthy rant!

OP posts:
Fishfingersandwichplease · 01/05/2020 22:17

Normally l think on here people are too quick to say go NC but on this occasion l totally agree with people advising this. Think you will do it and kick yourself for not doing it sooner xx

Louise91417 · 01/05/2020 22:20

Without meaning to sound cruel, is there a possibilty that your fathers relationship with your dd is based on his desire to hurt you. He sounds like a spiteful individual who is probably already putting the wheels in motion with the intent to punish you using your daughter,also he is probably puting the "doting granda" act on to convince his new wife hes a lovely guyHmm

Fififerry1 · 01/05/2020 22:24

I can only echo what has been said above (apart from Solomummy). As someone who did allow my children a relationship with an abusive parent (although different circumstances from you) it was a constant stress and tension. My father managed to be a very different grandfather to the parent he was (and he was still with my mother) but I would not have inflicted the emotional damage he did to me on my children. I was constantly worried about the wisdom of what I was doing and he knew I would not tolerate it if he repeated his behaviour. I’m afraid your father has blown any chance you gave him. Do not feel guilty. Do not look back.

CaveMum · 01/05/2020 22:33

You’re doing the right thing in cutting him off. Don’t tell him, just do it. Ignore his calls, block his number/email/social media. You don’t owe him an explanation.

As for your daughter, just tell her that grandad has been a very unkind person. Liken it to another child being unkind to her, ask her would she want to continue to play with someone who was always unkind to her. Then tell her no one has the right to be unkind to us and that if they are we should walk away from them.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/05/2020 22:34

Fanthorpe
I don’t agree. Op has every right to decide who her dd has contact with. She doesn’t trust this woman... or her own father. Her child, her rules.

Orphlids
Your dd is going to have a lot of questions and go through a bereavement if you cut your father off dead like people have suggested. I’m not saying you should continue contact long term. However imo you should perhaps have a think about how you approach this. Maybe seek some advice from counsellors / therapists. He is obviously a powerful and for her, positive, larger than life figure for her. The typical narcissist mo really.

frumpety · 01/05/2020 22:35

Where does your Mother live now ? Does DD not see her at her home ? Why are you so worried about DD knowing that your parents are divorced and that your Father has remarried ? She is 7 , there will be lots of her classmates who have divorced parents and divorced grandparents. It really isn't unusual.
Your Father does sound like a prize knob ( sorry!) , don't put him on a pedastal for your DD, be honest with her, let her see he is human and has faults, she will be less in thrall of him if you do.
It feels like you are protecting the wrong people in this scenario, if your Father is happy with his choices, then he will have no issues with you sharing the age appropriate truth with his granddaughter will he ? And if he does, you won't have to be the one making the NC decision ?

B1rdbra1n · 01/05/2020 22:35

lighten up
he is still treating you as if you are invisible, you express your concerns and he dismisses them as nothing.
Slowly slowly cut off his oxygen supply
I would write him a long letter
up to you but to me this is a way of treating him as if he deserves a proper explanation, as if he deserves for you to level with him, be straight with him.
I don't think he deserves to be treated with that much respect.
Your daughter adores him because that's the way he's engineered things, he needs her to trust him totally so that he can use her as a weapon to further damage you.

PapayaCoconut · 01/05/2020 22:39

If I’d not had a child, I’d have simply gone NC with my father. He has surprised me by his consistent interest in seeing my daughter, and they continue to be close.

I think it sounds like his interest in your DD feeds into your abandonment issues. It's like you think you're getting another shot at having a good relationship with him. But he isn't emotionally normal if he can ignore his daughter for three years. That's psychopathic behaviour. Nothing good can come of having a relationship with someone who is capable of this. He may very well be playing the long game, using your DD to pull you into his web off bullshit again.

B1rdbra1n · 01/05/2020 22:45

keep your daughter away from this pair of sociopaths, this women wants to humiliate and destroy you and your daughter just like she did your mother
BE WARNED

Wallywobbles · 01/05/2020 22:50

Give your daughter a slimmed down version of the truth. Explain more as and when she asks.

Sometimes in life one does need to take sides. And she should know this is one of them.

Thinkingabout1t · 01/05/2020 22:53

Just adding my voice to all the others here. He's charming to DD now in oder to win her over. But he'll change the moment he loses interest or feels like tormenting someone. You suffered his icy cruelty for three years -- you don't want DD to know what that feels like.

SusieSusieSoo · 01/05/2020 22:57

Op your father sounds a lot like mine was. I would never have allowed my ds to have the kind of relationship with my f that you are allowing.

My db's dc's experienced the man I knew when they were children & I would never put my ds in that situation.

Think you need to rethink this one. Neither of you need them in your life xx

Rabblemum · 01/05/2020 23:01

Be careful. My family has a narcissistic streak and I’ve noticed when kids are young and fall for their charm they’re great but as soon as they start seeing through them and answer back they have a massive falling out and it gets very hurtful for everyone.

billy1966 · 01/05/2020 23:01

What I can't believe is that you allowed a horror of a man who treated you appalling as a teen......

Who treated your mother appallingly.....

Who, when your poor mother came to YOUR house to mind your baby and help you, he moved another woman into the family home, and this woman left her mark in the house to further torment your mother......and you REWARD him by giving him your child.

Just extraordinary.
Your poor mother.

Neither your father nor you entertain any version of the word loyalty, that is for sure.

I also believe you must be very much under his control, to put your child in such a vulnerable position, that she would develop such a huge attachment for this charismatic man that you know well to be a narcissist.

Why would you facilitate a situation, that your child would grow to be in this awful man's thrall.

You have stated he he is awful, with a poisonous new wife, but you are surprised that he has disrespected you wishes....

Why are you surprised?

I would think you should definitely think about seeing someone to explore why you gave your dsughter to him and whynyou are now surprised.

Obviously, your child needs to be protecting from your father, but also from your complete lack of judgement. Where is your husband in this?
That he allowed this man near his child?

Poor little girl.

Please get some therapy to help you disengage from this awful man and learn about setting up boundaries.

Good luck.

justilou1 · 01/05/2020 23:09

You should have slammed the laptop shut immediately. Narcissists NEVER respect your boundaries. They simply “forget” them when it’s convenient, or minimize them to get their way. You lost that battle. Make sure you win the war. At the moment you have to realise that in your DF’s mind, your DD is the ultimate prize and You actually hold the power (I know it’s insane!). Take it back. Don’t allow him access at all. Explain to DD that her GF was very naughty letting the lady speak to her. That was against the rules with mummy. He won’t be doing it again.

Nearlyalmost50 · 01/05/2020 23:16

It's easy to think history won't repeat itself, that they'll be different with your child. But why? You were a lovely child- you were still ignored and punished and made to feel terrible. If someone could do that to you, they could do it to your child as well, you were/are both children in this scenario.

I agree, low or no contact, there's just no reason for it and it will come back to bite you on the arse. Your dad is showing you right now that he hasn't changed and he doesn't respect your boundaries. Act!

B1rdbra1n · 01/05/2020 23:16

Billy, I feel you are over harsh with OP, it is very confusing to be treated like this by parents, quite hard to stand up to parents who are skilled manipulators, remember this man has had the opportunity to train her from birth to comply with him.
Yes she needs to have her eyes opened so that she can understand what's happening but I don't think she should be blamed or judged.
(I apologise if I have misinterpreted the tone of your post)

Idontwantthis · 01/05/2020 23:17

It was absolutely the wrong thing to allow a relationship to develop between your daughter and your father.

Was a part of you hoping that your relationship with him would improve because he was developing a bond with her?

Keep her away from the disgusting pair of then

Batmannequin · 02/05/2020 00:19

The picture i get from what you've told us, is that your father is a manipulative controlling man. It wouldn't surprise me if he were maintaining a relationship with DD in order to further exert some kind of control over you.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 00:25

@billy1966, what an unpleasant reply. And also rather stupid, considering I have clearly stated I was not surprised. Do you really think I was able to condense every detail of this story into such a tiny post? Do you not think that there is a whole lifetime’s worth of information which is missing , and that only the very tip of the iceberg is included here? Life is complicated, as the vast majority of posters clearly understand. I do not have a lack of judgment; I was forced to make a series of judgments in a constantly changing set of circumstances, with a huge lack of knowledge, and in a series of scenarios which I had never before encountered. And as the situation has developed, I have been able to learn and reassess, and act accordingly. My daughter does not need protection from me; she needs protection from my father.

So many of you have provided wonderful, inspiration and fascinating advice. Thank you so much. I posted this half expecting the majority of people to respond by saying I was unreasonable not to allow my father’s new wife to be part of my DD’s life. A result of a lifetime of conditioning at the hands of a narcissist, I suppose. Luckily, the input of my fabulous mother has counteracted him enough to be able to put a stop to this from now on.

Huge thanks again to those of you who have been so constructive with your words. Some of your messages have reduced me to tears with their kindness.

OP posts:
Orphlids · 02/05/2020 00:36

@frumpety, DD knows my parents are no longer together, that is not a problem. DD and my DM continue to see each other and have a joyous relationship. I didn’t explain at the time to DD that he had a new partner as she was so young, the situation was so volatile, and I simply didn’t know how to broach the subject the sudden arrival of this new woman. I was so angry I couldn’t bring myself to discuss her. We received an invitation to their wedding the same week the divorce was finalised (we didn’t attend). It has all been so very complicated.

OP posts:
EmiliaAirheart · 02/05/2020 00:45

As unpleasant as it was for you to hear, I agree with everything in @billy1966’s post.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 00:50

Oh, and I must just say - I have absolutely no qualms whatsoever ever about cutting my father out of my life. It will be sheer relief. I don’t feel a need for his approval, or any pity for him. The only thing that worries me is dealing with what will inevitably be utter heartbreak for my DD. But I agree with what so many of you have said: far better she is briefly sad now than risk the potentially devastating future consequences of allowing any relationship to continue.

OP posts:
BemidjiMinnesota · 02/05/2020 00:54

Definitely go NC, but also stop sending him long messages explaining how disappointed and upset you are; he'll be loving that! Friction and hurt feelings are a treat for a narcissist. Far better to just quietly block him, do the grey rock technique, and don't engage, like he's nobody at all.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 01:03

Bemid thank you. He is already blocked. Just hoping it doesn’t lead to him looking for alternative paths into our lives. Luckily he is frightened of my DP so that will hopefully keep him at bay!

OP posts: