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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Father ignoring my instructions re his granddaughter.

144 replies

Orphlids · 01/05/2020 20:42

Since adolescence, I’ve had a difficult relationship with my father. He is a classic narcissist. He’s extremely charming and charismatic, intelligent and interesting, but behind closed doors, unfeeling and capable of cruelty. When I was fifteen, we had an argument (one of many, typical teenage stuff) and he didn’t speak a work to me again until I was twenty one, despite living under the same roof for three years of that time. It was all very strange, it was as though I was invisible.

Once he resumed speaking to me, it was a couple of sentences a week, all very stilted and awkward. It improved slightly over the years, but things always remained awkward and uncomfortable, and we certainly never had any meaningful conversation.

My DD (now seven) loves my father. She adores him. He is so exciting, and fun in her eyes. I was dubious about allowing a relationship to develop between them, as I am aware of his unpleasant side, but it was impractical to prevent it, as I am extremely close to my mother, so when I would go to see her, of course my father was also in the house.

Three years ago, my parents divorced. Throughout their marriage, he had had one affair after another, and finally left to marry his latest mistress. Before my parents separated, this woman made my mother’s life very unhappy. She made constant silent phone calls to the house, and humiliated my mother at a social function by making it obvious to everyone that she and my father were involved in a sexual relationship. When my daughter was a baby, my mother spent three nights a week staying with us, providing childcare, to allow me to return to work. In my mother’s absence, the other woman would go to my mum’s house, and stay there with my father, leaving little clues to her presence. Her Facebook profile picture is even taken in my mother’s back garden. These things are the only details my mother could bring herself to share with me. There are many more things which she finds too humiliating to speak about.

When my parents divorced, I gave a lot of thought about whether to allow a relationship to continue between my father and my DD. Eventually, I decided, perhaps wrongly, that I would allow it. If I’d not had a child, I’d have simply gone NC with my father. He has surprised me by his consistent interest in seeing my daughter, and they continue to be close. However, he has made repeated attempts to involve his new wife, the woman who, along with him, made my mother’s life so unhappy for a time. I have made it extremely clear to him that under no circumstances is this woman to have any form of contact with my DD. I insist that all contact takes place at my house, but he has repeatedly invited DD to his house, although I’ve told him that won’t be happening. Of course, DD is thrilled at the invitation, and has begged me to allow her to go. He told me a few months ago that he thinks it’s time to introduce DD to his wife. I sent a very lengthy reply, explaining again that I was happy for him to continue contact but that I would never change my mind about his wife, and to please not raise the issue again. It all got a little heated, and he was left in no doubt of my feelings about things. I knew he would try again in the future to involve her, as he cannot accept someone else setting the rules, and wants to maintain contol of every situation. I should make it clear that I am equally angry with my father about my mother’s treatment - I certainly put no more blame on her than I do him. It is simply the fact that my father already has an established relationship with my DD that I allow him contact.

Tonight, he had a video call with DD. I was cooking dinner, and came in to discover DD engaged in a video call with his wife. DD has not been told who this woman is. I don’t know how to discuss the situation with her, as she’s too young to hear thr truth, but I don’t want to lie to her. Of course, if my father had stuck to the rules, DD would not need any sort of explanation until she was older and more equipped to deal with whatever I chose to tell her. I’m furious that my clear instructions have been ignored, although I’m not surprised. I’d appreciate some thoughts on the situation, and what others would do going forward. My main concern is DD’s happiness, but I’m not prepared to allow this woman any level of involvement. My father will never give up attempting to get his own way. I wish I could boot him out of my life, but DD would be devastated.

Thank you for reading such a lengthy rant!

OP posts:
1Morewineplease · 02/05/2020 01:10

Trouble is, you’ve already opened the stable door.
Now you will need to attempt to shut it with your daughter in the way.
I’m sure that you can think of excuses for your father’s sudden absence in your life but when your daughter’s older, she will have questions and may resent you for inflicting your feelings on her and her grandfather’ relationship.
She might well feel that your feelings are no way like her feelings.
Very tricky OP.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 01:18

Yes, it is tricky. I normally feel pretty confident about parenting, but this is one issue that is just horrible to navigate.

OP posts:
Chloemol · 02/05/2020 01:18

Just slowly reduce contact. As others have said if she asks he is busy, you are busy, etc. Find something else to do

HoomanMoomin · 02/05/2020 01:51

I think you could perhaps write him some official email that states that you don’t want him or his wife to ever contact you or your family, even if they see you in public. Something that cannot be brushed off with “lighten up” and would be a proof for police if he tries to get in touch. With words like “any further attempts to contact us will be considered harassment and reported to police”.

Disclaimer: I don’t actually know whether it would be any use when reporting to police. Just a thought.

Rosspoldarkssaddle · 02/05/2020 02:43

I always said my relationship with my dad was our business and I would never get in the way of his relationship with my kids. Ds1 caught on pretty quick and now ds2 has him worked out. We went very lc over a ten year period because they caught on that he was not a nice person. At 7 they did not realise this. Within five years they got it. Distance is a good thing.

AliceTeale · 02/05/2020 03:00

Cut him out. Tell your daughter the truth - that grandad is not a nice man.

enragedpenfold · 02/05/2020 03:36

I think it’s bit weird that they’ve been married for three years and your dd doesn’t doesn’t know who she is, tbh. To the extent you are reiterating that she should not know, and must not know, etc etc.
You can go nc and do whatever you like, but how long were you expecting to be able to keep grandad’s wife a secret? Going nc would probably be way easier than trying to explain to a 12yo that you kept ‘this woman’ a secret for 8 years.
Families are weird. But trying to pretend that unpleasant relatives don’t exist transports us back fifty years where aunties went missing and were discussed in hushed tones and never in front of the children.
She’s his wife. Has been for years. He’s clearly a pig (as is she) but even a pig is going to find it mildly odd that his daughter won’t let him tell his granddaughter that he’s married, in some sort of weird allegiance to her mother, despite allowing him regular access.
Nowt so queer as folk.
Yes darling, grandad got married to that lady three years ago but I kept it a secret.
NC would save your bacon from having to explain.

Dieu · 02/05/2020 03:48

Honesty is the best policy always. Relative to her age, of course. Telling her that he is busy is the worst idea; it's cruel and confusing, and she won't understand. Nor will she let it drop, by the sound of things.
Good luck, OP Thanks

LouiseCollina · 02/05/2020 03:57

You did the right thing by cutting him out. Don’t reverse that decision for any reason, and be aware that you will find yourself under considerable pressure to do so, both from him and your daughter.

Inkpaperstars · 02/05/2020 04:19

I don't think your dd will be heartbroken if you handle it correctly. How to do that, I am not sure but you will know best, and hopefully others can advise. I agree with pp though, don't make up an excuse, that leads to all kinds of future problems. Tell a version of the truth diluted for her age. Make sure that she knows none of it is her fault and she hasn't done anything to cause a problem or cause him to dislike her.

Honeybee85 · 02/05/2020 04:31

Do yourself a massive favor and cut off this man completely. I literally got goosebumps from reading your post, this man is downright scary. I have no idea how to explain going NC to your DD, in your shoes I would probably consult a professional (therapist, psychologist) on how to tell her properly. Be aware of the possibility that he might try to contact her behind your back though. But whatever you do OP, please cut him off permanently and completely. This man and his revolting wife are a danger to you and your DD's mental health and healthy family relationships.

JazzyTheDog · 02/05/2020 04:52

@billy1966’s post was harsh, but there’s truth to it too. If this man really is the person you are describing he should have never been allowed to begin a relationship with his granddaughter in the first place, no matter what. I hope you don’t cave in to his influence again OP, for your own sake and your daughter’s. Flowers

OneMomentInHistory · 02/05/2020 05:17

I think you need to tell your daughter the (age-appropriate) truth. That although she knows him as a nice man, really he is not, he hurt you and her grandmother very badly and you're worried that if he remains in her life that he will hurt her. She needs to tell you if he contacts her. This isn't a situation where he will just dissapear - he has spent your whole life controlling you, and you exacting this control will make him angry, he will probably retaliate. You need to equip your daughter with enough information that she doesn't accept a relationship with him behind your back.

I encourage you to get some counselling for yourself. You sound like a good, level headed, mum, but you're also struggling with knowing whether you were being unreasonable in this situation. A good counsellor can help you unpack the impact he's had on you, and strengthen you going forward.

Good luck - my father left my mother in a horrible divorce. 20+ years ago and she's still upset about it, but I'm old enough now to have gone NC with him, and to realise that in fact the divorce was the best thing to happen to her, to free her from that man.

differentnameforthis · 02/05/2020 05:19

What to tell your dd about NC?

I told my girls (they ask why they have never met my mum - I went NC when I was 18) that she really isn't someone they need, or want in their life. I told them she didn't know how to parent me, made many mistakes and really hurt me.

I told them that she would do anything to control and hurt me, and that they are a direct path for that. And no way was I allowing them to be hurt in some way as to hurt me.

She doesn't need details. She just needs to know that the man she knows, she doesn't really know at all, and it's best for her that she no longer sees him.

She will grieve, and she won't really understand all well. Be strong, op. You owe him nothing and as you saw in his reply, he doesn't care about your feelings.

differentnameforthis · 02/05/2020 05:27

Please don't lie to her as @autumnkate suggested.

She needs to know some of the truth, otherwise this will backfire. Don't give him the opportunity to get in with his truth first. You can tell her in an age appropriate way and she will trust YOU not him.

@SoloMummy You are very wrong, he hasn't moved on. He went against op's wishes because he is trying to maintain control and using a 7yr old to do so. Also, he was dismissive of her concerns, so no, there is absolutely NO moving on done by him.

differentnameforthis · 02/05/2020 05:29

And don't send him a letter. He will keep it and use it against you as to prove how "unhinged" you are.

No contact is just that. None.

Apple1029 · 02/05/2020 05:31

why are you even entertaining him? Hes a horrible man. if he could be so cruel to you as a child why would you think he would not do that to your daughter as well.

justilou1 · 02/05/2020 05:32

Honestly, I think at her age it is safer to explain to her that not all adults are decent people and you have come to the conclusion that her grandfather isn’t as nice as he would like everyone to believe. You know she loves him, but he hasn’t behaved very well and he has hurt people before. You have decided that it is too risky to be in contact with him anymore. In keeping with this, you must also enforce a rule with her of having no secrets between you two, so that you will be told immediately if he attempts to contact her. (Keep this a separate issue - it is a valuable tool for keeping children safe anyway.)

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 02/05/2020 05:44

Definitely go no contact and say that he is a person who pretends to be nice but is really not at all.
Compare to something she will relate to - maybe a fairy tale character who shows a nice face but is all the time trying to kill off the hero/ine?

You could just lie and say he's dead but that would come back to bite you, so don't do that.

At 7 I think she's old enough to be told some details of how badly you were treated, and how badly your mother was treated - not all, of course, just that he was horribly mean to both of you and didn't really love you at all, despite pretending to.

And don't tail it off, stop it dead.

FiddlefigOnTheRoof · 02/05/2020 06:00

Has she seen Frozen? We use it to hammer home the message that some people who are lovely and fun and charming are not actually nice people at all. We found it helpful for a particular situation we are in.

ivykaty44 · 02/05/2020 06:06

Cut contact now
In the long run it will make you and dd happier

Wallywobbles · 02/05/2020 06:53

Also say you will answer any questions she asks. Don't make it into a secret.

dontdisturbmenow · 02/05/2020 06:55

You're not thinking of your daughter. She isn't emotionally involved in the drama of your and your mum's relationship with him. She loves him and his curious about knowing more about his life. That's normal. By wanting to stop it, you are using her for your own battles that's very selfish.

I've been ina,similar situation and I'm glad * let my kids decide on their own how they felt towards that person. As it turned out, they never really took on to them, but it was their choice.

Your dad has moved on. He's hurt people in the way but this is about your daughter. Let her decide who she cares for and who she doesn't.

Doggybiccys · 02/05/2020 07:19

@HollowTalk - You've created this problem by allowing him so much power over you.

This is a victim blaming statement- OP was an abused child. To the others also blaming her - yes, she is an adult now but you don’t just shake off an abused childhood when you turn 18 - it stays with you your whole life in some way. Shame on those who are victim blaming.

OP - it is clear you are trying to do the best for your daughter but your view is skewed because of your father’s abuse and I think you are possibly at a sub conscious level still trying to win his approval. This is very common and it is why abusers can wreak such havoc over a long period of time. He knows this and will use it to his advantage. Abusers like him do not change.

I think you are right to go NC. You know your daughter and how she is likely to process information but please also consider the future. She will in the not too distant future have access to phones, the internet etc. She could get her own mail and wish to open it herself. A man who can ignore his own DC for 5 years has staying power. When you go NC, he will be planning on how to further abuse you via your DD as soon as she is old enough to have some independence. This is why I think she needs the truth in a way she can process.

Having an abusive parent is one of the worst things that can happen to a person, more so when it is during childhood. You sound remarkably well adjusted despite your experiences. Good luck with it all Flowers

Doggybiccys · 02/05/2020 07:20

And please do not listen to a word of the apologist @dontdisturbmenow - shocking post.

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