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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Father ignoring my instructions re his granddaughter.

144 replies

Orphlids · 01/05/2020 20:42

Since adolescence, I’ve had a difficult relationship with my father. He is a classic narcissist. He’s extremely charming and charismatic, intelligent and interesting, but behind closed doors, unfeeling and capable of cruelty. When I was fifteen, we had an argument (one of many, typical teenage stuff) and he didn’t speak a work to me again until I was twenty one, despite living under the same roof for three years of that time. It was all very strange, it was as though I was invisible.

Once he resumed speaking to me, it was a couple of sentences a week, all very stilted and awkward. It improved slightly over the years, but things always remained awkward and uncomfortable, and we certainly never had any meaningful conversation.

My DD (now seven) loves my father. She adores him. He is so exciting, and fun in her eyes. I was dubious about allowing a relationship to develop between them, as I am aware of his unpleasant side, but it was impractical to prevent it, as I am extremely close to my mother, so when I would go to see her, of course my father was also in the house.

Three years ago, my parents divorced. Throughout their marriage, he had had one affair after another, and finally left to marry his latest mistress. Before my parents separated, this woman made my mother’s life very unhappy. She made constant silent phone calls to the house, and humiliated my mother at a social function by making it obvious to everyone that she and my father were involved in a sexual relationship. When my daughter was a baby, my mother spent three nights a week staying with us, providing childcare, to allow me to return to work. In my mother’s absence, the other woman would go to my mum’s house, and stay there with my father, leaving little clues to her presence. Her Facebook profile picture is even taken in my mother’s back garden. These things are the only details my mother could bring herself to share with me. There are many more things which she finds too humiliating to speak about.

When my parents divorced, I gave a lot of thought about whether to allow a relationship to continue between my father and my DD. Eventually, I decided, perhaps wrongly, that I would allow it. If I’d not had a child, I’d have simply gone NC with my father. He has surprised me by his consistent interest in seeing my daughter, and they continue to be close. However, he has made repeated attempts to involve his new wife, the woman who, along with him, made my mother’s life so unhappy for a time. I have made it extremely clear to him that under no circumstances is this woman to have any form of contact with my DD. I insist that all contact takes place at my house, but he has repeatedly invited DD to his house, although I’ve told him that won’t be happening. Of course, DD is thrilled at the invitation, and has begged me to allow her to go. He told me a few months ago that he thinks it’s time to introduce DD to his wife. I sent a very lengthy reply, explaining again that I was happy for him to continue contact but that I would never change my mind about his wife, and to please not raise the issue again. It all got a little heated, and he was left in no doubt of my feelings about things. I knew he would try again in the future to involve her, as he cannot accept someone else setting the rules, and wants to maintain contol of every situation. I should make it clear that I am equally angry with my father about my mother’s treatment - I certainly put no more blame on her than I do him. It is simply the fact that my father already has an established relationship with my DD that I allow him contact.

Tonight, he had a video call with DD. I was cooking dinner, and came in to discover DD engaged in a video call with his wife. DD has not been told who this woman is. I don’t know how to discuss the situation with her, as she’s too young to hear thr truth, but I don’t want to lie to her. Of course, if my father had stuck to the rules, DD would not need any sort of explanation until she was older and more equipped to deal with whatever I chose to tell her. I’m furious that my clear instructions have been ignored, although I’m not surprised. I’d appreciate some thoughts on the situation, and what others would do going forward. My main concern is DD’s happiness, but I’m not prepared to allow this woman any level of involvement. My father will never give up attempting to get his own way. I wish I could boot him out of my life, but DD would be devastated.

Thank you for reading such a lengthy rant!

OP posts:
Orphlids · 02/05/2020 08:31

Yes, a few victim blaming responses, but luckily I’m clued up enough to disregard these. Thank you, @Doggybiccys, for your thoughtful reply.

Also, having reread my original post, I think it must seem to many readers that I have known all along the extent of my father’s unpleasantness. I only discovered the truth about the treatment of my mother recently. At the time of DD’s birth, the situation was this: I knew my father had behaved oddly when I was a teenager, and our relationship had never recovered, but that things had now settled into a status quo and nothing seemed particularly awful at that point. My parents had been married for over forty years. I didn’t know that they would go on to divorce and the situation would become so hugely unpleasant. My mother has since divulged to me a little of what went on in the past. And by that time the relationship was already formed between DD and my father, so it became a new situation, and one I was forced to navigate while trying to protect the feelings of a bright, eternally optimistic and loving child.

OP posts:
FanSaBhaile · 02/05/2020 08:53

How did your mother act/react when your father ignored you for 6 years? You talk about how wonderful she is, but allowing that situation to continue for so long doesn't sound wonderful.
I'm glad you're out the other side now though, I think you've made the right decision.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 09:04

My mother is wonderful. She too was the victim of my my father’s narcissism, and has managed to break free from him after being with him her entire adult life. Pretty inspirational. While my father ignored me, she fought my corner, stood up for me and despaired at what could be done. Her behaviour probably put her in harm’s way and made her life extremely difficult, and I’ve no doubt I’ve yet to hear the details of that period.

OP posts:
Qgardens · 02/05/2020 09:09

Yes, a child friendly, honest version of the truth as suggested by pp's

Eskarina1 · 02/05/2020 09:10

I was a similar age to your dd when my grandad decided to temporarily cease contact with my dad (a nasty punishment for not doing exactly what he was told). He lived in another country so our contact had been by phone and letter, but I remember being fond of him. My parents had to explain why and the reason was so inexcusable, even to a 7 year old. Having learned a lot more since about how he treated my father and grandmother (long divorced when I was born) I regretted ever having had a relationship with him. My dad got back in touch but I refused to ever speak to him again - he asked to when he was dying but I had no interest.

7 is young enough to deal with this. Protect yourself and your daughter.

rawlikesushi · 02/05/2020 09:19

Another one here who thinks that you should shut him out of your life completely and permanently op.

If he could ignore you, his daughter, for three years then imagine what he is capable of doing the first time your dd crosses one of his arbitrary lines, and imagine how shocked and hurt she will be then.

I work with children of a similar age and they are remarkably resilient. They deal with loss and bereavement in the most remarkable way. Be as honest as you can, in an age-appropriate way.

Do you think his wife has a genuine interest in your dd is it just another way to hurt your mum or assert her position? The way she dealt with being ow was horrendous.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 09:32

@rawlikesushi, I don’t know the new wife. But from what I hear about her from others, she is much like my father. My aunt, a psychologist, has met her, and told me she believes her to be a narcissist too. I feel certain she is on board with my father’s plans to get control of this situation, and if she can continue to get one over on my mother, then even better. Thank you for the reassuring info about children of a similar age.

OP posts:
Infused · 02/05/2020 09:40

He ignored you for six years whilst living in the same house?! That's disgusting. How damaging must that have been for you.

No bollocks to him, he's made his bed. No good can come of a relationship with your daughter.

marble11 · 02/05/2020 09:42

Your Mother is not wonderful. She allowed your Father to ignore you all those years and stayed with him.

My ex was like this. I left him before DD was born as I was not going to allow her to witness this kind of behaviour.

Some women put their own needs before their kids. Pathetic.

pinkyredrose · 02/05/2020 09:51

Well done on blocking him. Why is he scared of your partner though?

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 10:01

@pinkyredrose, not for any worrying reason. Just because my DP is the total opposite of him, and cannot be manipulated using his practiced methods.

OP posts:
ekidmxcl · 02/05/2020 10:13

Op my father is like yours. Your 7yo will understand a basic explanation. Both mine did at that age.

He is just pretending to be nice, he did not speak to me for 3 years: he lived with me and mummy like me you and daddy lived together and he did not say any words.

And then you can be thankful she’s only 7 as she’ll shake it off. You have full control at this age. Don’t wait til she’s 13 and thinks that you are the one being unkind.

isittooearlyforgin · 02/05/2020 10:14

Op, I went non contact with my father. The thought of it was terrifying at the time but so worth it and not as bad as I’d imagined. You build something up in your head but the fear of it is worse than doing the act itself. It will cut a lot of drama out of your life.
In my children’s case they’d never met my dad but when they asked I didn’t tell them details as I didn’t want to skew their judgement. Sometimes if you go in full “he was a bad man” it can have the opposite effect and they can subconsciously blame you. I wanted them to be old enough to work it for themselves. I think the advice of others not to do a big announcement, and fill your daughters life with others is the answer. Good luck x

saraclara · 02/05/2020 10:15

If your daughter asks, simply say that your father did something very cruel and hurtful to her grandmother, (she doesn't need to know when this happened), and so for now you don't want to see him for a while.

Beautiful3 · 02/05/2020 10:32

I would cut all ties with him. He is not a nice person. He didn't speak to his child for 6 years, 3 of those were while you lived together?! What he did to you, he could easily do to your child too. Remember that. Just tell your child grandad moved far away, and never mention his name again. Ignore all calls from your dad.

PapayaCoconut · 02/05/2020 11:44

Your Mother is not wonderful. She allowed your Father to ignore you all those years and stayed with him.

I'm assuming he was emotionally abusing her too, but yes you have a point.

rawlikesushi · 02/05/2020 11:52

"Your Mother is not wonderful. She allowed your Father to ignore you all those years and stayed with him."

What an unhelpful and unkind comment, ignoring the complexities of living in an abusive situation and making many assumptions.

op has a close and loving relationship with her mum, remembers her mum's support during those difficult three years very well, and clearly considers her mum to be a victim too. Who are you to say otherwise? If someone in the position of OP's mum all those years ago posted now for support would you really call them pathetic?

HeyDuggeewhatchadoin · 02/05/2020 11:56

@differentnameforthis thank you for your eloquent post, I hope I'll remember it when my children ask.

boylovesmeerkats · 02/05/2020 12:26

I'm going to go against the grain here. Your DD loves him and wants to spend time with him so it's hard to end that without her feeling a lot of hurt, especially as she's been able to see him for 7 years so it does seem why now. Also your dad's partner sounds horrible but I don't understand why so much of your hatred is wrapped up on her instead of him. I think you need to decide on your boundaries but think about it from your daughter's perspective.

Your daughter is growing up fast, in no time at all she'll be making her own decisions on all this, but as a teenager her decisions won't always match yours. You don't want to do anything in this situation that makes her grandfather to be a victim. It could be as extreme as him asking for a court order to see her.

Perhaps explain to him your reasons and allow x number of days a year to visit or for your DD to visit him.

I'm sorry how much he hurt you, but my own dad hurt me when I was a teenager, maybe not quite the same way but seeing him with the grandkids was a genuine fresh start for us. He died recently and I'm glad I could forgive him. Counseling might be a good idea too for you to separate all these emotions.

My kids did have a 3rd grandad, my mums partner who left our lives suddenly when he ended their relationship, they were much younger though 2 and 4 so bounced back. Now they're 5 and 7 they are really grieving for my dad.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 12:29

@marble11, dad, is that you?!

OP posts:
WonderWebbs · 02/05/2020 12:35

I agree with many others and you really need to protect your DD and go NC with your Father. Be honest with your DD why, but in an age appropriate way. She will ask questions in the future and you can always add more info. as she gets older.

Sadly for those of us who have had a thoroughly unpleasant parent whilst growing up you do find the strength to make sure your child does not suffer the same experience. Also you might want to consider some counselling as whilst painful at times it can help you to come to terms with your childhood experiences. Good luck.

Orphlids · 02/05/2020 12:37

@boylovesmeerkats, the whole point is that I have set boundaries, and my father is ignoring them. And I took the time to explain in my OP that I do not blame or dislike the new wife more than I do my father, but as she seems equally awful, I have no intention of adding her to my DD’s life, having already made the mistake of allowing my father in.

There is no point in explaining my reasons to him (again). This would mean absolutely nothing to him. He couldn’t care less about my feelings or wishes. His only motivation is to gain contol. This trumps any feelings of genuine affection he may feel for DD. There can be no fresh start with a narcissist. They do not feel normal human emotions in the same way we do. I’m so glad you were able to find a happy result with your own DF, but it sounds very different to this situation.

OP posts:
hardboiledeggs · 02/05/2020 12:44

Time to cut him off. Hes shown you numerous times what kind of man he really is, save your Daughter the hurt of finding out.

boylovesmeerkats · 02/05/2020 12:51

It may be, but there are different ways to spin things. I could write a post right now based on how he was when I grew up and everyone would tell me to cut him out of my life. I'm not saying you're wrong, but not everything is so black and white which is why I think most of all you're better off having some professional guidance. When all is said and done all the people on Mumsnet aren't going to mean anything to your daughter if she one day wants a relationship with him and he treats her well, it could happen.

I've seen from my husband too that family rifts that seem 100% justified don't always seem that way over time. My husband has family that he hasn't seen based on his father's version and I think hard as it is it can be more helpful to allow people to make up their own minds about their families because it can be damaging to have that made for you and to feel like if you're bad or step a foot wrong you're out.

Just tread carefully but hope it works out.

ChickenPoetry · 02/05/2020 12:51

Orphlids I absolutely could have written your post almost word for word. I don’t have time to write an in depth reply but what I will say is that we went NC with him when she was 12, and then subsequently she did too at 18 - basically because he tried to use the same narcissistic behaviour on her as he did me at that age. I’ll try to give more info later - but it is ultimately the only way to stop his behaviour permanently. I understand how hard it is though.