Entitled mothers

[MerryDeath]

mostly trying to avoid getting into it with the local mums on FB but this petition doing the rounds about extending mat leave, paid, by 3 months because of CV19.... AIBU to be incensed by the attitude of some new mothers?? not for the first time either. and i say this as someone on mat leave with a 4 month old.. i am mostly just thankful to be safe, with an income, in my home, with my baby. i couldn't give a flying frog about going to baby sensory. if that's your biggest concern then lucky you 🤯🤯

@Iwalkinmyclothing the ones that can wfh are already doing that - the others don't want that - they want to be furloughed and not work but get 80%.

@twinkleprincess this is exactly the kind of difficulty I was referring to. In your case it's not just that you can't have a settling in period; it's that you haven't been able to visit any childcare settings. Of course you don't want to leave your baby somewhere you haven't even seen. This must be the case for many women. It's not entitlement; there are genuine logistical problems going on.

I hope you manage to get something sorted out. As a pp said there a thing called parental leave where you take a block of time off unpaid so maybe look into that. I gather it's quite restrictive though in that you need to ask for specific dates in advance and an employer can refuse which given what you've said about your employer sounds less promising.

So glad it wasn't just me. I typed a long reply to a petition I saw and just didn't post it because I knew it'd cause a row. The wording of the petition is a joke, basically saying the purpose of mat leave is to go to baby groups! I'm also on mat leave with a 4 month old and a toddler and it hasn't been easy but it's down to unfortunate circumstances and I hardly consider it a hardship I need to be compensated for when people are losing their jobs and the economy is already going to take forever to recover. YANBU at all!

@BBCONEANDTWO They don't understand the furlough scheme then, do they? Mind you a lot of people seem not to understand it!

Oh and the disingenous argument in the petition that it's all for the baby's benefit!

it is not only new mother’s, but employees who want to have all the annual leave they had booked cancelled and allowed to take that time out after things re open.

I’m just grateful said employees and myself work for a nice company that is still paying us a salary to sit at home as most of our work has been cancelled.

Yeah people keep tagging me in this on Facebook but I have just avoided the subject. It's been a very different experience from my first mat leave, and certainly not what I wanted, but I dont think another 3 months is necessary.

I just don't understand the thinking behind this. I'm about to go on maternity leave with #2, currently working full-time from home as is my DH. We're splitting childcare of toddler as best as we can - like so many many others. It's chaos but I'm very grateful we both still have jobs etc!
I'm feeling a tiny bit miffed that without any nursery care, my early maternity leave pre-baby arrival will hardly involve any lying on the sofa knitting/watching TV ... but seriously? It's this sort of thing that makes some employers so shifty about employing/promoting women of child-bearing age. 'Missing out' on baby groups is not an argument for extending paid leave, and I say that as someone for whom local baby groups played a huge part in getting me out and about and improving my mental health in the early days of motherhood.

yanbu

People probably don't say if they don't agree on FB to avoid the moaning retorts so tends only to be the yes people who comment on that type of post...

Strangely enough babies won't even know that they have missed out on these important groups!

@Pinkblueberry yes in the petition. But bother to read the actual parliamentary discussion points in their survey and you'll get a more appropriate view point.

Much easier to just take things as read though and then berate a load of mums with genuine concerns and potentially genuine needs.

Exactly what Mumsnet is for, clearly.

yes in the petition.

But the petitions the thing they’re asking people to sign. Those are the points that they led with. That was a conscious decision.

The onus is not on everyone else to read the small print if they can’t state their own position accurately.

@DrinkVeneer makes some really good, empathetic points. It's a shame that the organisers of the petition didn't think of any of them beyond their babyccino bubble because I think the response might have been rather different. The petition text petition.parliament.uk/petitions/306691 literally mentions baby groups and nothing else.

I don't think maternity leave should be extended in this situation but I do hate the sneery tone of some of the replies here. I don't live near family and moved when I was pregnant and bereaved and going to local baby groups saved my mental health. I know groups are for the parent and not the baby and I needed it (as did other people I know).

@StealthMama where do I read those? I can’t see that on the petition site. Happy to be pointed in the right direction as I’m sure it would be interesting to read.

I totally agree with you and unfortunately my business is running baby classes!! Utterly ridiculous to expect longer paid maternity leave. Country already going to be on its knees. We are so fortunate to have such a long paid period of maternity leave (look at America !). This period is to look after your baby whilst it’s young - classes / coffees with friends etc is a lovely bonus in normal times but these are not normal times. I’m also pregnant and was sent the petition by a friend but will not be signing it

@StealthMama do you mean the survey under 'Other parliamentary business'? That hasn't been set by the petition organisers. It's from the MPs on the Petitions Committee.

@ThanksItHasPockets yes that's it. And exactly my point. All any petition achieves is a review. The survey is the actual government undertaking a light consultation. Their questions are the important ones, and in my view, very valid. I'm glad they are able to think so broadly in such a challenging environment.

It's not a competition about who had what, who could or couldn't afford mat leave in the past. It is about what might be needed now and in these circumstances.

No matter how it's achieved, child development is important.

No matter how it's achieved, child development is important.

Of course.

But it’s total nonsense to suggest baby classes are necessary for that.

@StealthMama of course child development is important, but it won’t be affected by Coronavirus will it? Absent other issues like
maternal mental health, poverty, domestic violence (which should be dealt with in other ways), all a baby needs in the first year of life to develop is loving interactions with a caregiver. They’ll still get that.

@sallysparrow157 thing is even without lockdown the babies won't be sleeping better so if you're still doing all the nights and are going back to work whilst DH is a sahd, thats something that needs resolving internally. They might still be crap sleepers in 3 months.

The people I know who have signed it have signed it despite what the petition says, because they can't visit family, lockdown has exacerbated pnd etc.

@Sleepingstandingup serious question - do they think extra paid time off will cure their PND? I feel for them but it’s not like you can go back in time. No one is entitled to a PND free mat leave - some people are just unlucky. They might have had it regardless of the family situation.

I agree @HarrietM87. Even when there’s no Covid, sometimes maternity leave doesn’t work out as nicely as planned for all kinds of reasons - be it PND, the baby being ill, family problems etc, but you can’t just seek extra maternity leave to make up for that time - it’s just not time you can get back, even if you were allowed additional leave.
That’s why I don’t really understand the idea behind this petition. The argument is that babies are missing out on socialising and activities that are deemed ‘vital’ for their development - but if it’s so vital at that point in time as they claim then surely what’s done is done. I don’t believe for a minute that it is vital - but if I suspend disbelief for a moment and agreed, additional mat leave isn’t going to help, they’ve missed out and you can’t make up for it later when the child is older. If you can make up for it later then my guess is it wasn’t so ‘vital’ in the first bloody place. The more you think about it the more silly this petition becomes. I can’t believe how many signatures it has received based on its flawed initial statement.

@StealthMama and @ThanksItHasPockets I'm glad there is being some broader discussion about this although I do agree that the actual petition itself is poorly positioned and articulated. Clearly there are additional barriers and considerations re women returning to work right now, over and above the usual challenges, and they will be along similar lines for everyone (difficulties in arranging both formal and informal childcare and support systems) so it makes sense to have some kind of policy consideration of them.

Good chance their maternity leave will be extended.

By unemployment.

It's insanity why are new mothers any more worthy of paid time off than anyone else.
I feel for them, I'm a mother myself and had 15 weeks mat leave. It's ridiculous and sadly looks very grabby.
What about those that missed funerals, those that missed retirements, those that are long term sick, those that had adoptions or IVF thwarted. Utter entitled shameless grabby behaviour in my opinion.