To be ashamed to be British

[yesterdayschild]

Every day more and more British deaths. When compared to other countries some of them third world, we have an appalling death rate from Covid 19.
Why oh why did the government allow 3000 Spanish to enter just to watch a football match when Spain would not allow them to watch in their own country.
Why was the Stereophonics concert allowed when other countries had locked down.
Why are thousands of people still entering the U.K. with no checks.
Why are our NHS staff still begging for PPE

I am feeling very very low about all of this and wish I lived in some other country.

GhostofFrankGrimes

I've found that survey -

"This year we asked over 11,000 people who left our register over a six month period in 2018 the reasons why they left. Findings from that survey show that the top reason for leaving was retirement, however almost a third (1,050) of the 3,504 respondents cited too much pressure leading to stress and/or poor mental health as a top reason for leaving."

"Elsewhere in the survey findings, 51 percent (92) of those nurses and midwives who trained within the EU, left the register and responded to the survey stated Brexit as a reason for encouraging them to consider working outside the UK."

Slightly misleading survey reporting if you ask me - it depends on the questions asked as well - a reason could be the fourth reason on the list.

www.nmc.org.uk/news/news-and-updates/nmc-register-data-march-2019/

I have sent her that link, clavinova, thank you.

I don't think you can spin foreign key workers considering leaving the UK due to Brexit (even if there are other factors) as in anyway positive. Which is the wider point. Not exactly welcoming, global Britain.

We should be training out own nurses, not poaching them from (often) poorer countries who have paid for their training.
There are 60 million people in this country - we ought to be able to find enough people who want to train as nurses.

I still think it depends on the questions asked - if Brexit was an option on the survey, with 'tick all that apply' you are likely to get more replies swayed the way you want.

Apparently 80% of teachers have considered leaving teaching...

Utter, utter rubbish. There are plenty of things ScotGov could do to reduce drug related deaths. There doesn’t need to be a change in law from UKGov to aid that. Of course it suits SNP narrative to dupe their followers into believing her hands are tied.

Drugs deaths are multifactorial, not just health-related and they have increased substantially in England, Scotland and Wales under the tories austerity policies.

The question for any government is where to spend their limited resources (remember the annual budget cuts from WM?). Who do you prioritise? In Scotland we have free nursing care for the elderly and better maternity / infant investment and outcomes, along with free prescriptions and lower waiting times in hospitals?

Tell me, who gets priority in England?

It is because we went through the supposedly ideological austerity (if we ignore EU rules and what they implemented) we can actually apply Keynesian economic principals now during a global disaster.

Oh puhlease!!
No it’s not! It’s because it benefits them now politically AND economically to throw some crumbs to the poorest temporarily and to keep certain segments of voters onside - self employed and/or business owners and even then they dragged their heels!

A country’s economy does not run the same as a household budget (though frankly I wouldn’t trust this shower of shite with that either!)

To have a healthy economy we need investment at all levels and we haven’t had that for decades.

@LockedDownnout - that argument is a race to the bottom! We are not a developing country. Comparing us to those is disingenuous at best, we are supposed to be one of the wealthiest and most developed country’s in the world yet our govt can’t even organise basic management of this crisis.

deydododat not saying Germany “utopia” but on that point they do seem to have a sensible approach - and on many others! I’ve lived there too, no it’s not perfect but there are many ways it is better run than Uk.

We have more than enough people here already. wow! Maybe your username should be extended? We absolutely do not have “enough” people at the moment, just today govt announced extending visas to key worker non brits! But then this is standard commentary from certain pro-Tory posters of which Xenia is just one.

Also I take great offence at being told to leave my own country because it’s being run into the ground by people I and a significant portion of those eligible to vote DID NOT VOTE FOR!

Agree the couple of people I know in Sweden FAR from happy with how things have been handled there.

Blind faith isn't patriotic hear hear

And actually why I was never a Corbyn acolyte I would have preferred he were in charge, he is still an Mp and worked with others in the Labour Party to prepare and present ideas for management to the govt which were agreed on and supported by relevant experts and this govt wouldn’t even consider those ideas and dismissed them out of hand completely. That is NOT how our govt is supposed to be run. Yes the tories are the governing party but they’re still supposed to at least listen to mps from other parties!

I’d definitely prefer Keir!!

We’re gradually becoming a plutocracy/oligarchy and aren’t protesting this NEARLY enough!

Nobody elected fucking Cummings for a start!!

@Mittens030869, I’m afraid as a Scot and someone who lived in Europe around that time it absolutely wasn’t just English fans who were football hooligans! There were problems with fans from several countries until the clubs got a grip and started banning the troublemakers. I was living in the Netherlands when it was a major problem there in the 90’s and as a weegie I’m ashamed to say we still can have issues at old firm games.

@MrsHuntGene if you think the tories are exempt from the trans bollocks you’re mistaken - where do you think the recent issues started?! The libs and labour may be more open on the subject but it’s the tories who are and were in power and have been making the changes to laws and regulations that you’re likely concerned about.

There is going to be some explaining to do if an island nation obsessesd with controlling borders ends up with the worst infection rate in europe. unless the electorate starts collaborating properly that will never happen. They’ll sweep it under the rug with the broom of Brexit and blame “furriners”

Just one of the great Brexit contradictions and highly embarassing for the UK and the Brexit obsessed government. exactly

^We should be training out own nurses* then we need to reintroduce the bursary! I’m an ex nurse, it’s virtually impossible to do the training to the best of your ability AND have to work another job (because I can assure you training as a nurse very much is doing a job too). Impossible for students who already have other caring responsibilities too be that child or elderly care, so people in those situations who would previously have undertaken training aren’t even applying since the bursary was abolished.

OP, if millions of people died of Covid in the third world countries, would that make you proud to be British?

I still think it depends on the questions asked - if Brexit was an option on the survey, with 'tick all that apply' you are likely to get more replies swayed the way you want.

They didn't have to tick the Brexit box. I'm going to take a wild guess here and suggest that the "breaking point" poster wasn't particuarly welcoming to non British people.

Apparently 80% of teachers have considered leaving teaching...

The Michael Gove factor...

I trained as a nurse in the 80’s. I had a salary. Degree nurses were just coming in, when I qualified. As a mature student with a mortgage, I could not possibly have done my training now.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and suggest that the "breaking point" poster wasn't particularly welcoming to non British people.

One of the most common nationalities of NHS overseas staff is Polish -

April 2020 -

"Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic broke European law when they failed to give refuge to asylum seekers arriving in southern Europe, often having fled war in Syria and Iraq, the EU’s top court has ruled."

"The three central European countries now face possible fines for refusing to take a share of refugees, after EU leaders forced through mandatory quotas to relocate up to 160,000 asylum seekers at the height of the 2015 migration crisis."

"Issuing its judgment on Thursday, the European court of justice said the three member states “had failed to fulfil their obligations under European Union law”.The Czech Republic took in just 12 asylum seekers, while Hungary and Poland refused to take a single person."

www.theguardian.com/law/2020/apr/02/eu-court-rules-three-countries-czech-republic-hungary-poland-broke-law-over-refugee-quotas

I don't think the Tories are immune from the tans bollocks. But I think they are more likely to wake up from it than embrace it completely, now it is becoming clear just why it is a problem.
I do agree that we ought to be finding training properly. My mum was an intensive care nurse - when she started out all major hospitals had their own training schools on site. This needs to come back.

Clavinova, your irrelevant cut and paste doesnt address my point about xenophobia wrt brexit.

To be honest - I doubt that EU nurses identified themselves with that unfortunate poster at all.

Look at the pictures of the very dedicated and skilled NHS staff who have died. Not many white british. I am so proud of being a multi-cultural nation - and how everyone has given more than we could expect for others.

I don't know if I have ever been ashamed to be British.

Came close in June 2016.

And again in December 2019.

At the moment I am just sad.

I suspect that much of the blame can be laid at door of government and their cultish behaviour over Brexit (this govt) and austerity (still Tories)

But there are also so many things that make me incredibly proud. The NHS for one. The other key workers that have really stepped up when we need them. Our neighbours, family and friends who are all doing their bit, whether it is just obeying lockdown, making PPE, scrubs, masks etc. Or if like me you are just trying to help your kids as much as you can.

The armed forces - who we do not fear, and who are stepping up and helping us now. Who help build (along with the tradespeople) the Nightingale hospitals.

The ONS and British way of doing things that means we are not covering up deaths and means questions will be asked.

That we are and we can ask questions is so important and says so much about the country we are.

We are not yet at the end of the pandemic. Mistkaes have been made undoubtedly.

I am not the British Govt though, I am a citizen who has seen so much good in people in this pandemic.

If we could just stop certain twitching and clyping on our neighbours on social media we would be even better

I agree OP; we've not handled this well.

Quoting academics is not understanding the Eu regulations around deficit and are whitewashing the original comment re money tree when it is about the money tree wrt a global pandemic/recession.

Justanotherlurker, EU rule is a country’s deficit should not exceed 3% of its GDP. Osborne’s target was lower. Also all countries are supposed to take part but as UK was not part of the eurozone they didn’t have to pay penalties. Osborne could have chosen to keep the fiscal stimulus going for a few years more to boost growth but didn’t. The outcome slow growth and real time wages only got back to where they were pre crash in 2018. It is feared that the UK will never make up for those lost ten years in wage decrease

Also the same principle applies re fiscal stimulus be it after a global crash or after a pandemic.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - from an article 29th Jan -"To put the cases and deaths so far into perspective, remember that seasonal flu kills between 250,000 and 650,000 people each year." “Right now, you’re probably more likely to be catching flu than you are to be getting coronavirus,” said Devi Sridhar, chair in global public health at the University of Edinburgh.

@Clavinova, I mentioned in a previous comment that what Devi S said in the January Vox article was not incorrect. I also have just come upon tweets she sent out on 13 March. She wasn’t calling for a v strict lockdown but she she was calling for more than the govt were doing on 13 March. She was also right on the money about the need to continue with and ramp up testing, contact tracing and quarantining capability. The UK govt that week had switched to to only testing those in hospital which Devi S obviously thought was the wrong choice.

EU rule is a country’s deficit should not exceed 3% of its GDP. Osborne’s target was lower.

So it wasn't purely ideological then was it, which is the common narrative being spun whilst forgetting Brown also promised austerity and so did Milliband.

Osborne could have chosen to keep the fiscal stimulus going for a few years more to boost growth but didn’t. The outcome slow growth and real time wages only got back to where they were pre crash in 2018. It is feared that the UK will never make up for those lost ten years in wage decrease

Relative to the rest of europe there was no clear winners what with unemployment down to its lowest, wage growth not rapidly expanding in any other EU country and our GDP still in line.

Also the same principle applies re fiscal stimulus be it after a global crash or after a pandemic

The same principal applies if you cut back when we in a growth period, the problem with all the Keynsian fans are they seem to think you can ramp it up when we was already running a very heavy deficit, part of the reason why the government can offer furlough etc at the minute is because of the previous years of austerity.

Also all countries are supposed to take part but as UK was not part of the eurozone they didn’t have to pay penalties.Osborne could have chosen to keep the fiscal stimulus going for a few years more to boost growth but didn’t.

The UK didn't have to pay penalties but that didn't stop the EU sending out recommendations such as this;

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/06/19/uk-excessive-deficit-procedure-council-issues-new-recommendation/

There was a windfall at the end of 2018 -

"Philip Hammond is set to land a £13bn annual windfall in the Budget from better-than-expected public finances that will help save the chancellor from increasing taxes to pay for NHS spending."

"The good news for Mr Hammond will be handed to him by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility, which had underestimated the recent strength of tax receipts—in the largest annual change in borrowing forecasts since the data was first produced in 1982-83."

"The chancellor and his aides have been worrying in recent weeks about a cumulative £100bn bill over five years for the NHS and social housing improvements. But much of this gap is likely to be filled by the OBR slashing its borrowing forecasts until 2022."

www.ft.com/content/f3a3c518-d606-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8

The UK didn't have to pay penalties but that didn't stop the EU sending out recommendations such as this;

No, it goes against the narrative that Austerity was purely idological, you can pinpoint the day that The Guardian and Labour started listening to Krugman, it was the day after Brown lost the election, they had completely ignored him previously during the boom years and the 2 years after the GFC, the day Labour lost all of a sudden they where all for Keynesian economic principles.

Even now some brush over the fact we can implement some Keynesian principals, because our deficit spend has been brought into line.

Devi S...was also right on the money about the need to continue with and ramp up testing, contact tracing and quarantining capability.

Yes, but the tweet you have copied refers to the China, Singapore, S.Korea model. In fact she mentions South Korea quite a lot - this is what S.Korea are doing;

"At first we interview the patients and try to gather information, emphasising that this affects the health and safety of the entire people."

"Then to fill in the areas they perhaps haven't told us, and also to verify, we use GPS data, surveillance camera footage, and credit card transactions to recreate their route a day before their symptoms showed."

Cheer up, Germany's response is the envy of the world, but they moan just as much about how terrible everything is.

Nobody knows who has and hasn’t handled this well until we have come through this on a global scale.

The government here have been damned if they do,damned if they don’t.Don’t go into lockdown and people were shouting “they need to go into lockdown now!” So they did,and now people are saying that they will refuse to support an extention of the lockdown and will damn well do as they want.

Already people are talking of their human rights,and yet in other countries all exercise has been banned, the sale of alcohol and cigarettes has been banned in South Africa for instance,in France you had to provide proof of where you were going, in China the army placed tape over your front door and inspected twice a day if you’d been out.How many people in the UK would have supported that? Even now we see posts on here from people objecting to family visiting one another and the response is “you don’t know the circumstances so mind your own business.”

If we’d gone into lockdown earlier then people would have been refusing to stick to the rules right about when the virus peaked. Now we are at least past the peak.

And New Zealand IMO doesn’t rate a mention in terms of how they have handled it because as a country with a population of only 4 million people they’re already practically socially distancing by default. And you just can’t compare a whole country with half the population of London to one with a population of 60 million people.

And has anyone read the article on the BBC about the Spanish care homes? Where people were just left and found dead in their beds and the staff had no PPE.... and people think that Spain did better because their lockdown was stricter?

I didn’t vote for this government,but I actually think they’ve done better than most.