To be ashamed to be British

[yesterdayschild]

Every day more and more British deaths. When compared to other countries some of them third world, we have an appalling death rate from Covid 19.
Why oh why did the government allow 3000 Spanish to enter just to watch a football match when Spain would not allow them to watch in their own country.
Why was the Stereophonics concert allowed when other countries had locked down.
Why are thousands of people still entering the U.K. with no checks.
Why are our NHS staff still begging for PPE

I am feeling very very low about all of this and wish I lived in some other country.

How can lockdown be voluntary?

Is that so people can decide their are intelligent and sensible enough to not have to follow the guidelines don’t have to ?

Xenia also didn't agree with schools shutting down.

I normally get my double negatives right but what I meant to say was I didn't want schools to close and didn't want the original lock down to be anything other than voluntary as I would rather increase the risk of death and follow the Swedish approach and let people decide themselves.

However as I believe in the rule of law I have been following it - I don't even do a daily walk as I have a garden.

The Swedish approach is suitable to Sweden - the population is far smaller and only a few pockets of high population density. It is also not an international hub.
Still in relation to population their death rate is not low compared to other countries of similar population and population density.

If we had taken that approach our hospitals would not be able to cope. We would be having many more HCP’s, teachers and other keyworkers off sick. And many are very very ill even with mild symptoms with the concerns will they have lasting health issues this are unknowns (as with the immunity question)

The Swedish approach is suitable to Sweden

That's not what the Swedish people I know are saying. They are furious with their government's approach which they think has caused needless deaths (sound familiar?).

the Swedish people I know are actually really angry at their government for the way they’ve handled it.

Not all fine and dandy as per the media

I've read a lot of these threads and the general consensus seems to be that no country is comparable to the UK.....

When it comes to Covid impact I mean

*the Swedish people I know are actually really angry at their government for the way they’ve handled it.

Not all fine and dandy as per the media*

Hardly a surprise, as they have a death rate that's higher than in the other 3 Nordic countries, who did have a lockdown.

I do find it sad that many people seem to think if you have any criticism about this country or its government you should just leave the country. Yikes.

Blind faith isn't patriotic.
We should all want our country to be better.
Even if we think our country is the best of the best, we should be positive about improving it rather than just sneering that anyone critical should move.

@Xenia massively glad you weren’t in charge then !
Already lost a member of my husbands family and an old neighbour of mine

Well I for one am proud to be British. (there I have said it!)YABU .Other countries have not fared well either .Why did Northern Italy let 20,000 people out at the beginning ?.Would you care to live in Spain .Where BBC news reported a lady ,who has had her 3 under 10s locked down ,with no access to outside space for 6 weeks! They were then allowed out and her DH sent home as they have secret police there and only one parent allowed out at a time with DC? This whole "I hate UK" really pisses me off .Boris Johnson has made himself ill ,and carried on with nightly bulletins even when not well .Now back only a few weeks later to run things .With this kind of emergency how could any govt plan ahead ?no one knows the outcome ! Would you really feel happier with Jeremy Corybn in charge of things?(or his deputy Diane Abbott!)

@dottiedoah With this kind of emergency how could any govt plan ahead ?no one knows the outcome !

There was an exercise in 2016 called Operation Cygnus where the government looked at what would happen in a pandemic. The results showed we were underprepared. The government did nothing because it was too busy focusing on Brexit.

There were also warnings that stockpiles of PPE were low and stock was out of date. Government did nothing.

You're right that there is a lot which is uncertain but emergency planning is absolutely something a responsible government does, and this one failed to do it.

Boris Johnson got sick after shaking hands with Covid patients entirely unnecessarily and initially saying we should let the virus pass through the country (i.e. it's only old and sick people who will die, who cares). He''s playing his illness up for PR and will do the same when his baby comes.

Not fans of Corbyn or Diane Abbott but yes, I'd prefer them to be in charge.

@OneandTwenty no but thinking we know better is very, very much an English thing. And that’s part of why we’re in this mess.

We need to stop thinking about the death rate as a percentage of those who have had the virus. That’s not what OP’s saying it’s the number of people who have died from it that’s all. And the number of people who have here is obscene. And the laissez faire attitude of the general public and people on here is disgusting and proves OP’s point.

And the posters saying well other countries have had the same problem so ner ner, FFS grow up just because someone else fucks up doesn’t mean it excuses your own behaviour, and we had weeks worth of head start on these countries, weeks we could see what was potentially coming and we did nothing.....because we know better don’t we.

I’m not ashamed to be British but I couldn’t agree with you more.
We went to the Stereophonics concert in the middle of March. Our DD had got us the tickets. It was just at the time when Boris had done a speech on the Thursday. People were still going around as normal then, so not thinking much about it, we went..
Well talk about hindsight. I didn’t feel well the following week, I just felt rough. I had a slight cough, sore throat, but nothing much and was shivery and tired. Then exactly a week after the concert my taste and smell disappeared out of the blue. DH followed and had the exact same symptoms as me a few days later, although he was a bit worse and got a temperature.
6 weeks on, we’re better, but it’s taken this long. Taste and smell creeping back but not fully yet. Presuming Covid but obvs don’t know for sure.
Lockdown should’ve happened 2 weeks before that Concert at least. I’ve got absolutely no doubt that I or we picked up the virus at the concert.

We also need to stop saying well would you prefer Corbyn in charge FFS that is a pathetic retort! This isn’t a Labour/Conservative thing you ducking idiots! I’m traditionally a Conservative (however could not vote for the joke that is Johnson) and I can see that we’ve been hung out to dry by this pathetic mess of a Government and saying oh well Corbyn wouldn’t have done a better job. Oh so that’s ok then.....For heaven’s sake. I know exactly what you mean OP.

I think the reason posters have said that is because the OP said she wished she didn't live in this country, though. For that reason, it isn't really surprising that she got their reaction.

I agree that there's been a lot wrong with this country. I've been ashamed to be British in the past, for example in the 1980s because of the English football hooligans (it was specifically England fans that did this so it's entirely appropriate to call them English here), and the lager louts that travel to Tenerife and, in more recent times, to Prague for stag weekends.

With this pandemic, however, it's been the opposite. Yes, some people have broken lockdown rules, which is very disappointing, but nothing like the majority. It's been very encouraging to see how communities have pulled together to get through this. Tom Moore's story was very heartwarming.

The government's handling of this has left a lot to be desired, especially the way they delayed too long to do the lockdown and the shambles over testing and PPE for frontline workers.

What ever OP, if it makes you feel better.

There was an exercise in 2016 called Operation Cygnus where the government looked at what would happen in a pandemic.The results showed we were underprepared. The government did nothing because it was too busy focusing on Brexit.

Have you seen the report yourself? I thought it hadn't been published.

Exercise Cygnus is mentioned here - Day 1 of the exercise has the NHS overwhelmed with a shortage of staff - the object of the exercise appears to have been how they would respond to a crisis - not how they would prevent the crisis from happening;

"Our preparations for pandemic influenza were exercised in October 2016 with NHS England participating in Exercise Cygnus.The exercise was set seven weeks into a severe pandemic outbreak and challenged the NHS to review its response to an overwhelmed service with reduced staff availability. Plans are currently being revised to incorporate the learning from this exercise and ensure our continued preparedness for future pandemic influenza outbreaks. We are also continuing the challenging work around the management of surge and escalation decision making processes."

Agree. Its beyond party political. It is about holding those in power to account. In a democracy that is what we do. The buck stops with them. They get paid a lot to do what they do, they put themselves up for the job. They are accountable and should be scrutinized.

I agree hindsight is a wonderful thing but it seems there were obvious steps that could have been taken to mitigate this and weren't.

As a result people have died.

If this was a company and the people employees, would it be considered corporate manslaughter? I guess governments are exempt from this to a degree but it is almost certain that their inaction has caused more ill health and death (even if we just look at health care worker deaths for example).

Not fans of Corbyn or Diane Abbott but yes, I'd prefer them to be in charge. I'm so glad they aren't. Poor Diane isn't well and she is having terrible problems with her son. Jeremy Corbyn only knows how to protest. It's a great relief to see Keir as Labour leader.

I love being British (and I use that word deliberately because I have connections to both England and Wales) - there's a lot about Britain that I thoroughly enjoy.
That's not to say I think it's perfect, no country is. There are lovely people and total twats in every nation.

The government have made some appalling decisions, but I'm not convinced the opposition would have been better. I did vote for this govt, on the basis that Labour and the Lib Dems think that a man is a woman solely on the grounds that he says so. Does anyone think that with such a limited understanding of biology they could manage a pandemic? The mini dictators within Labour were expelling women who didn't tow the party line and the Lib Dems actively told me not to vote for them if I don't agree. I wouldn't trust those people to water my plants, let alone run the country.
We have a shit govt because the opposition was completely ineffective.

Clavinova really? Why wasn't it published? The Commie Telegraph tells you all you need to know

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/

Shaking hands with patients 3 weeks before getting CV-19 symptoms indicates the virus has a very long incubation period, else he caught the virus elsewhere.
Boris Johnson did not mention the herd immunity; it was actually the chief medical or scientific officer. However, it is a scientific fact, that unless you want to be in a lockdown for several years until a vaccine is produced, then it seems very likely that most people will get the virus eventually, until herd immunity is reached (approx 60-70 percent of the population).
I think the Gov has made some mistakes, but I suspect we would be at a similar place with whatever side were in Gov.

Boris Johnson got sick after shaking hands with Covid patients

I think even the media acknowledge that Johnson's PR visit to that hospital had not caused his illness as the time gap was too far apart. In any case, he didn't say he shook hands with Covid patients - he said he thought there were Covid patients [somewhere] in the hospital.