Obese 4 year old and grandparents

[user1468863258]

I am beyond upset so please help me rationalise this one.
And sorry for a long post!
I have a 4 year old who is at 99% of his weight and 10% of his height constantly hungry and has no sense of when he is full. Lots of tantrums and other behaviour issues around food. We are seeing specialists but so far no diagnosis apart of him being classed as extremely obese. We have been struggling with this since he was born even though all have very healthy diet ( no sweets, no processed food, lots of veggies etc). We have been very on top of his portion control so managed to get him to 77% in the last year. He is still 3 kg overweight but at least we were moving the right direction.

Fast forward to the last month when we are living together with his grandparents. We have tried to explain our concerns about his eating and tell them the portions we use etc. But they just ignore it and continue to give him the amounts they think is right for him. Of course they think that nothing is wrong with him and he just needs to eat more.
I just measured his weight and he has gained 1 kg in the last month which brings him back to 99%. I know that he is Young but we went through so much difficulty to get him where he was now: constantly monitoring his intake, making sure he does not over eat, talk to him about eating habits, feeling full , importance of eating the right amount...And now after more then a year of this we are back to square one! I Just don't know if I can do this again! Feel like I am falling apart and can't think rationally. Due to the current circumstances we all need to live together and get alone. How do I make this ok in my head? Should I forbid the grandparents to feed him?

Am I blowing this out of proportion?

He is constantly asking for food and claims to be hungry so even if it is all healthy food it can add up as he can't burn it all. The grandparents give him bigger portions as they believe he needs more. They also give him such food like egg and potatoes and rice and butter for snacks. Usually we have Apple or cucumber or orange for snack. I feel uncomfortable to interrogate then about how much they give him and what they feed him every snack as both me and DH explained the situation to them and showed them the amounts of food the child usually eats.
I know it's really hard to understand the situation when you have a normal or semi-picky eater as he will eat anything he can get his hands on and will not stop by himself.
It's really tough on the whole family and really heart breaking.
We (me and DH)will do all his food and see how we get on in 1 week.

And yes, will definitely look into genetic tests once we are back in UK

@user1468863258

I can see so many odd things in your posts.

First, there are some flights back to the UK.
It's not clear if you have tried to get one or don't want one.

As others have asked, why are your companies (if you are employees) expecting you to do 'shift work' by working from different time zones?
Is this practical with a young family?

Secondly, you don't appear to be very assertive.
I'd not consider you as 'guests' when you are with in laws- they are family, surely?

If you and your husband cannot speak clearly to them and ask what snacks they have fed your child, that's your fault- no one else's.

It sounds a bit pathetic to be honest to say you cannot ask them directly for fear of offending them when your child has a health issue and they are making it worse.

When you come back to the UK- or even before, using online services - I'd suggest you enrol in some form of parenting course. This will help you create boundaries and take back control. At present, your son is controlling you and his grandparents. he does this through asking for food. Somewhere along the line he has learned that asking for food gets him attention, that you are emotionally invested in hos food and if only he cries enough and makes a fuss, someone will give in to him.

He cannot possibly understand 'feeling full' or anything about healthy eating.

Your son has behavioural issues- not simply food issues.
The food is a symptom but his behaviour is all about getting attention and pushing your buttons. It's the reverse of a fussy eater.

You really need help from a child psychologist who can help you parent in a way to help you and him.

If he has always been overweight on the 99th percentile, but his height is on the 10th percentile, how do you account for that?

As his mum, you are the one who buys, cooks and feeds him.

I'd be really interested to know what he eats in a day.
Over the years there have been numerous thread on here about food and quantities.

It's shocking at times to see parents who think their child eats a normal portion when in fact it was an adult portion.

You may have skewed ideas of what a portion size is.
Any / most food will increase weight if enough of it eaten so saying you have 'healthy food' is not always accurate.

What I see from your latest post is that your son creates and demands food. He is NOT hungry. He is using this behaviour for attention. He may decide to call his 'needs' hunger but they are probably not.

At some stage you and your DH decided to pacify him by giving in to his wants, and the pattern was established.

Please see this as a behavioural and parenting issue, not a food issue.

You need to change whatever you are doing so he will change.
Put yourself in charge and start telling your in laws what's what for a start.

BUT your heart has to be in it. what comes over is that you can't bear to see him upset so you give in and let him take control of you all.

as he will eat anything he can get his hands on and will not stop by himself.

He is four.

You put food out of his reach. If necessary you put child locks on food cupboards and the fridge.

You take food away if somehow he finds it. It sounds as if he is getting into the cupboards and helping himself! How is this being allowed?

It's not rocket science.

Then you reward good behaviour (not creating over food) and ignore bad behaviour.

Basic child psychology.

(I am an educational professional by the way.)

I sympathise OP, as I have a similar situation. My daughter is 8, and is overweight (98% percentile, last time I checked). Weight has been an issue all her life - health visitor first flagged it when she was 1. All her meals were cooked from scratch, and she wasn't allowed sweets until she was at least 2, as I didn't see the point. She has always had a healthy, varied diet, and loves fruit and vegetables. I am very fit - run regularly, including marathons / half-marathons. We cook from scratch. No squash, no fizzy drinks, sweets once a week. She is incredibly active - normally swims twice a week, one 'normal' lesson, one more intense competitive swim training. Tennis once a week. I bought her an activity monitor, because I thought I must be in denial, but she easily exceeded the recommended 60 minutes every day. During lockdown, I have taken her out every day, and she has cycled a total of 17 miles so far this week. I can also sympathise about the inlaws - mine would constantly give treats, and offer squash / nesquik over water. Even when my kids ask for water, they get "Are you sure? Wouldn't you prefer strawberry milk?" Living with them would make things very tricky indeed!

@Areyoufree Meals can be very healthy but simply too large. There appears to be this idea that all meals cooked from scratch are fine, but the truth is that anyone who is overweight is usually eating too much even if it's 'healthy'. There is no other reason.

I don't understand why you haven't done everything in your power to go home. Surely it must be possible?!

@JinglingHellsBells Sure, but when you read the PPs, many have commented that they don't believe a child who has a healthy diet can be overweight. Plus, more than one have asked about the OPs weight. All I am saying, is that some children are more prone to weight gain than others. In my daughter's case, lockdown is giving us a real opportunity to gently work on this, as we can control what she eats, which we can't do when she goes to school. For some parents, ensuring a healthy diet is enough, because their children will tend not to overeat. That isn't the case with all children. I have two children, the other is on the low side of normal. Fed them the same.

@Areyoufree your post is brilliant “I didn’t offer sweets until my child was 2” you were giving sweets to a 2 year old?

@Zootastic Nope, that's not what I said. I said she wasn't allowed sweets - I never offered them to her. To be honest, I don't remember how old she was when someone gave her sweets. I never saw the point in letting her know they existed. I imagine she was around that age when she was given sweets by a relative.

Have he been considered for Prader-Willi syndrome?!?

I think also we can be fooled into thinking our child is doing lots of exercise because he or she goes to a club twice a week, when in actual fact they are driven to school, driven to the club - and rather than hours of exercise a day they are getting half an hour here or there!!!

@Areyoufree All I am saying, is that some children are more prone to weight gain than others. In my daughter's case, lockdown is giving us a real opportunity to gently work on this, as we can control what she eats, which we can't do when she goes to school

Why can't you control what your daughter eats when she is at school? Presumably she has either a packed lunch or a school dinner?
If the latter, you will know what it is (you can find out the menu) and adjust what she eats at home for tea/ dinner.

I agree some people put weight on more easily.
But healthy home cooked meals can still be 'unhealthy' if portions are too big.

I really don't think you can blame school for your daughter's weight issue. She is with you more than she is at school.

Maybe you have a skewed idea of portion size.

It's a common factor because portions in restaurants have got bigger over the years as have ready meals.

Many people do not realise they are over-eating.

This is great! Lots of helpful suggestions here and tough crowd at times ;) I might create a separate thread to discuss behaviour and parenting questions.
We both continue to work as we still have to pay our bills and yes, surprisingly the companies expect us to collaborate and contribute during office hours. Is this practical with young kids? Not a lot of things are practical at the moment for most of us I would imagine but you make it work!
As I sad earlier I believe he is given too much food and that was my initial concern.
And yes we are very strict with him and consistent about our parenting strategies and that is how we managed to get below 80%. It is not rocket science but it is not by all means easy.

Oh stop with the “it’s heart breaking”

As though you’re a bystander with no control.

You. Are. His. Mother. * feel uncomfortable to interrogate then about how much they give him and what they feed him every snack *

Sod feeling uncomfortable. Woman-up. Mum-up and either feed your child exclusively (you’re working from their home. It’s entirely possible) or Speak very directly with the grandparent

Why can't you control what your daughter eats when she is at school? Presumably she has either a packed lunch or a school dinner?

I don't know how much she has in after school club. They offer "snacks", but I can't expect them to police her and tell me exactly how much she has eaten. Since lockdown I am pretty sure she has been losing weight, but I won't know for sure, until I do their measurements next month.

Maybe you have a skewed idea of portion size.

Nope, am very aware of portion sizes and calorie intake. Anyhow, this isn't about me. I only posted to support the OP, as I know how tough these things can be.

* I don't know how much she has in after school club. *

You could ask?

Overfeeding a child like your son is abuse - so yes, you need to stop the grandparents doing that. just like you would stop them to spank him, take him into the car without a car seat etc

When my son was bored he constantly asked for food but if he was occupied he didn’t! Could it be something like that ? I am also a bit uncomfortable about you discussing nutrition etc with a 4 year old !? Do you have issues with food OP ?

@user1468863258

Prader-Willi can be suspected at birth (low muscle tone being a symptom), but detected definitively by a blood test. That might be worth looking into. In the meantime:

1. Appeal to your GP for help. (It'd be lovely if G'Ma and G'Pa would listen in on a call/phone or virtual appt. However, they seem pretty stubborn and might refuse.)

2. Take control of his diet and portions. Full stop.

3. Encourage the active play, as you seem to be doing.

4. I do think you should keep focusing on "feeling the fullness" (as we say around here) after meals. I ask my kids to drink a glass of water (no-one likes milk) and wait ten minutes. They usually get bored just sitting there and then ask to be excused.

You have a right to be concerned and I think you're doing great!

@Areyoufree surely as she is your child you are allowed to tell the ASC no snacks or only one? Do they help themselves with no supervision?

I also watched the documentary and have the exact same thoughts as @Hotcuppatea.

I'm not sure if they said which gene, but it's one that regulates the appetite pathways. From what I remember, besides obesity, the child was otherwise healthy, and this might be more likely in your situation than Prader-Willi syndrome.

I know it's really hard to understand the situation when you have a normal or semi-picky eater as he will eat anything he can get his hands on and will not stop by himself.

Sorry, this will sound tough but yes, it is hard to understand. Nothing about having normal or picky eaters.

Here’s the facts. A 4yo can’t drive down the shop. A 4yo doesn’t have a cash card and can’t buy food. These very simple facts mean that their food CAN be controlled.

The eating any food they get their hands on and not stopping is also confusing. They get a plate with a correct portion size put in front of them. They don’t get seconds. If necessary put a child lock on the cupboard or fridge.

If they complain of being hungry distract them or failing that let them tantrum it out but giving in to them just signals to them they have a level of control over you and they will use it to their advantage, kids are very savvy in this regard.

^ I agree with the above. When I was growing up 0 to 16 I ate exactly what I was given - a normal breakfast, packed lunch and then a cooked meal for tea. I would never have been able to go to the pantry/cupboards and just take things out in a million years. I'm sorry the grandparents are undermining your efforts - would it be worth writing them a letter about the future you want for your child, his goal weight etc and ask them for their help in achieving that (instead of criticising them as they may just get defensive). Or ask for their help in drawing up simple/healthy snacks that they can help to make so they feel involved.

As far as exercise goes, I'd say about 80% of weight is down to diet rather than activity. And as other people have pointed out, it doesn't matter if it's home cooked/cooked from scratch/healthy if there's too much of it.

One of the biggest people I used to know, an ex work colleague, was vegan, into health foods, and she was massive. I never really understood it until I went over there for a meal. Seriously, I was stunned. The salad she made for a starter would have been like a main meal for me and she made wraps, had 4 when really 1 was fine, AND then pudding. TBH I actually felt sick, it was just a crazy amount of food, must've been over 2000 kcal in one sitting (easily).

I'd look into swapping some of his meals - if you shave 100 kcal off his breakfast, then in one month he should've lost 1lb. But honestly this simply sounds like a portion size issue.

Also just wanted to check - what is he drinking? Some squashes with artifical flavourings and sugar can cause quite bad hunger - they rocket blood sugar up which then crashes after, especially if they're served alone. Smoothies like innocent fruit smoothies do this also. They are not a healthy choice.