Surprised at healthy people saying they won’t send dc to school until there’s a vaccination

[sunshineanddaffodils]

I absolutely understand that if your dc has a health condition there’s no way you would put in any situation where they could catch covid. Likewise if you or your partner have a health condition or other vulnerable dc. However I am baffled as to why you would not want your healthy dc getting back to school and their friends ASAP but want to wait for a vaccination. That could be years! As long as the vulnerable population remains safe self isolating I cannot understand why there is such horror at the thought of schools reopening.

My DP who is actually the vulnerable one has gone back to work! I pulled the kids out a week early as we were trying to protect him. He refuses to sit around when work is extremely busy and he’s needed. So if the schools go back I’ll send the kids back and we’ll just have to deal with the consequences.

Perhaps they're wanting to protect vulnerable extended family members? Perhaps they'd like their kids to be able to spend time with grandparents/aunts/uncles, etc?

Even a "healthy" household doesn't exist in it's own vacuum.

Even young/healthy people are dying of Covid.

Lots of reasons why someone may not want their kids going back to school until treatment/vaccine is widely available.

Lockdown is unsustainable for a long period, the issue really is that if those who are low risk dont go back to work and send their children to schools, it means we will all be forced out of it sooner than ideal, and it puts those who are at risk in even more danger. I don't think the obsession with schools is reasonable though, lots of things would have to get back moving.

This is getting tiresome.

Schools are not opening tomorrow - its not safe.

Schools cannot wait got a vaccine- that's ridiculous.

The vast majority of us think that we need to meet somewhere in the middle. Yet still there is all the constant arguing.

Not one single one of us will have a say in what happens. We each just need to make the decisions best for our family.

Yes they could, and I personally do, but shouty capital posts and swearing at OPs who don’t are unnecessary and not helping anyone.

People really don't understand statistics. Apart from healthcare workers under an extreme viral load, hardly any genuinely healthy young people have died. They all had pre-existing conditions or were obese. The number of children dead is miniscule - this virus hardly affects healthy children. It would be bonkers to not send healthy children in because of CV, but then happily drive round the M25 and allow them to play rugby/contact sports.

Because to start with we had it rammed down our throats it was only the elderly and vulnerable at risk and now how in true that has shown itself to be with children , teenagers, young mums , middle aged dads etc all DYING

But saying that it's the elderly or those with underlying conditions who are at the most risk doesn't preclude others dying. I knew of two people - a healthy 1 year old and a healthy woman in her 60s - who died or nearly died from flu last winter.

With flu, the risk is a lot higher for older people and those with underlying conditions (that's why we vaccinate them), but every year young, healthy people do die from flu. Low risk isn't no risk. We just don't tend to think of flu as being as serious as it is, because for most of us the risk is low.

I'm not for a second saying covid is flu, but the principles are the same. We may just have to accept this disease for a while. We simply can't remain under lockdown for a couple of years. And anyone saying they're happy to do so, is actually saying that they're comfortable for others to take the risk to get society up and running again, while they take advantage of wealth and privilege to stay indoors. (Obviously not for a second applying that to those at high risk.)

Covid isn't a little flu, you know.

It is not going away. Lockdown is not going to prevent people catching this disease. The likelihood is that most of us will, at some stage. This pertinent but frequently overlooked point is one that was made to us from central government from the very beginning but which, amid the voracious policing of the behaviour of others, some people have found prudent to ignore.

A vaccine may or may not be possible. Anyone wanting guaranteed avoidance of this potentially serious disease is going to have to remain sequestered from society, from schools and from the workplace, on a pretty much indefinite basis. You can choose to live like this - or be forced to, if you're unfortunate enough to be in the shielded group - and have nothing resembling a life or financial security from this point on.

The biggest statistical picture is admittedly frightening and yes, there are healthy people dying of this disease. The same thing can happen with measles - a very dangerous disease against which some parents have taken the mad decision not to vaccinate and which is now encroaching again - or chickenpox, which is unpleasant, occasionally dangerous, and does have a vaccine but an ineffective one that doesn't offer lifelong immunity. Any of these scenarios could ultimately apply to CV19.

It's all a case of measuring up the risks against the benefits. And it does seem that some people have really lost sight of objectivity here. I mostly blame the media. This shitstorm is like manna sent from heaven to them.

The problem is that there are a significant number of usually healthy people who fall into the vulnerable group for covid19.

Exactly. Our family/friends can't understand why we've locked ourselves down - we're just middle aged, both working full time, appear healthy etc.

But in reality, OH has blood cell cancer which puts him in the highest risk category. Few people know that - even some close family don't know, and his co-workers/clients don't know. Although incurable, it's a "treatable" cancer and in normal times, he'd be going through a treatment cycle at the moment which has been indefinitely cancelled. As his "levels" are very high (hence why treatment is needed now), he's at risk BOTH of covid AND of dying due to the cancer. But, he is still working (from behind closed doors) and doesn't look ill.

We need to stop this narrative of the "vulnerable" being old/disabled etc. Huge numbers of "vulnerable" are living normal lives, are relatively young, otherwise likely to live many more quality years, working as normal, etc. They're not all sat around in care homes or unable to work due to illness.

A bit out of date but this is the demographic of C19 deaths.

metro.co.uk/2020/04/03/coronavirus-deaths-age-uk-12506448/

They are still not sure if there ever will be a successful vaccine

What will parent dog these children do them?

In the US in 2020 so far 10102 people under the age of 24 have died since the 2nd January.

Of those 17 died of CV, 112 died of flu and 196 from pnemonia and 7 from CV and pneumonia. Now even assuming we havent yet hit the peak in the US those numbers would have to get 10 times worse.

And all told the above account for 3% of the deaths (so respiratory disease basically) so 97% died of other things. Things we accept on a day to day basis.

Even in the over 85s this year in the US respiratory disease was 12% of deaths.

I was panicking about this in February and then DD decided to take a massive tumble down the stairs. She was confusion and sick multiple times and needed a CT scan to make sure there was nothing serious going on. It took 3 days for her to get back to a semblance of normal and another 2 weeks properly. But for me it really drove home the risks that we live with on a day to day basis - she was at home saying goodbye to a friend one minute and then on the floor confused and out of it the next.

It’s like people saying they will never do anything remotely dangerous that has a risk factor of death

Such as being in a car or crossing the road.

You can’t prevent those deaths and no age group is immune, it doesn’t stop people driving on motorways or crossing roads.

@sunshineanddaffodils you seemed have missed all the reports about healthy people getting it. Including a 3 week old baby in Scotland.

@Morgankitten

Healthy people do get it yes. Lots of healthy people get this - its infectious/contagious nature is the problem with it. Its why we are in lockdown it spreads and was spreading fast.

According to the doctor and 111 both myself and my DD have had it. MM is full of people thinking they have had it.

No one has ever said healthy people dont get it?

Ok, assuming you're genuine and not one of the paid-for Tory comms people who has been chased from Twitter ...being overweight is a co-morbidity. How many overweight people are there in the UK OP ?

Do you also post as an NHS worker on Twitter by any chance?
noble yy cross-post. I'd bet money on it.

They must be SAHM. No other way.

I think they should have the option of taking their children to school or home schooling them.

Healthy people are not dying in significant numbers. It is not healthy to be overweight or unfit, or to have an indoor, sedentary lifestyle. These are significant risks.

I don’t think you are unreasonable at all, OP.

Yes, healthy people have died. But this is very rare and you’re probably statistically more likely to die in a car crash on the way to dropping your kids off at school than from the virus itself (if you’re healthy)
Deaths in the healthy make the news precisely because they’re rare.
And the reason why CV has caused such a huge amount of disruption in our daily lives isn’t because it is so deadly... it is because the majority get such mild symptoms. That is part of what makes it so contagious. If everyone who caught it was knocked off their feet for a week or two as soon as they developed symptoms, they wouldn’t be going out and about spreading it to others. But the fact that so many people do not get ill enough to curtail their day to day activities much is what has been causing this spread.

I think people are incorrectly equating the level of attention this virus has gotten with how deadly it must be.

No way will I be waiting for a vaccine before I resume my normal life (whenever we may be allowed to do that)

I couldn’t agree more OP. Yes, there are people with underlying health conditions who understandably would be nervous, but for the vast majority of parents (who will be mostly under 55) and children there is such a small risk as to be negligible. I’d also understand older teachers being nervous.

The damage to children’s education which has impacts on long term health outcomes also shouldn’t be ignored.

Overall I think people have been scared into thinking anyone young and healthy could die in order to get the population to cooperate with lockdown when statistically it’s so so so unlikely.

Yanbu. It’s totally unfair to expect children to miss a year or more of their education. It will negatively impact their entire life chances.

People who start these threads are never baffled or don't understand, such wording is always used as a pretext for the OP to be sneery and denigrating to others who just aren't as educated and clever enough to think and act just like the OP does.

They are missing school, not education aupres

Wow, the forum police are out in force today

How very dare you want to discuss such a topic on an open forum, OP! Shame on you!