Surprised at healthy people saying they won’t send dc to school until there’s a vaccination

[sunshineanddaffodils]

I absolutely understand that if your dc has a health condition there’s no way you would put in any situation where they could catch covid. Likewise if you or your partner have a health condition or other vulnerable dc. However I am baffled as to why you would not want your healthy dc getting back to school and their friends ASAP but want to wait for a vaccination. That could be years! As long as the vulnerable population remains safe self isolating I cannot understand why there is such horror at the thought of schools reopening.

People don’t necessarily discuss their underlying health issues with others

This! My OH has terminal cancer but was still working until Covid as it's treatable for a few years. His workmates and even his family/friends don't know anything about it.

You believe that we’ll have a properly tested, mass produced vaccine widely available and rolled out to the 60 million plus people in this country in about 10 months time.

No of course not, not to all 60 million. First will go to frontline emergency service workers and carers. Then it'll be those identified as most vulnerable who'll still be shielding until a vaccine. Then other vulnerable people (i.e. those who usually get the flu jab). No need at all for everyone else to be given it. The carers and front line workers & most vulnerable at those who need it most and there will be capability to give it to those groups pretty quickly once it is in production.

Well I will immediately discount the 3 links to the Tory graph.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/health/coronavirus-obesity-higher-risk.amp.html

Abraid just looked at your 1st link

The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared the COVID-19 outbreak to be an international public health emergency. Coronaviruses can cause more severe symptoms and complications in people with obesity-related conditions.

Key words to me are obesity related conditions.

You said all obese people were at risk.................

So is it obesity that is the risk or the conditions that some people have that are as a result of their obesity?

Here’s my original post again hadenough. Please read the whole thing as you seem to be misinterpreting. I didn’t say all obese people were at risk.

‘Some of the ‘healthy’ younger people dying are overweight and obese, which apparently makes you more likely to suffer a huge inflammatory response to the virus.

Obviously there are exceptions!’

Yeah I know what your post said! Which is exactly why I questioned it!

Which bit am I misinterpreting?

Hardly baffling at all... It's an epidemic which affects healthy people too - children are dieing.

Unless you are intending to live in a bubble whilst the parents and children may recover - by catching it they may spread it to co- workers, teachers, family members, supermarket workers, on buses and trains, afterschool clubs, book group etc. Ensuring the virus comtinues to spread in society and leading to another peak like we have now.

Once the government has set out a good strategy for trying to containthis spread for example by testing and contract tracing, which proves affective at controlling spread for a couple of months, then people may be more supportive of it.

So in short - because whilst catching th virus may not put most school children in hospital, it is repsonsible for starting transmission chains which will kill people.

Plus the economic cost of another peak would be disasterous - the gov must prove they can try to control spread before considering going back to school. We can't let this virus get so out of control again - particularly as whilst the rat eof new infections is slowing, we haven't seen it declining yet.

@chris5690 very few children are dying though?

But yes agree about getting out of control but actually at the moment we just dont know that it starts transmission chains that kill people

@Chris5690 children are more likely to die in a car crash than of coronavirus. Are you going to stop going out in a car?

I think 'very few' is still too many - at least for parents involved - the main risk is children could be vectors sparking community transmission. Would their parents be going into work? Are their bosses over 60? How many teacher deaths are we willing to sacrifice? (in my opinion none).

I agree - we don't know it starts the transmission chains, but we do know the transmission chains ultimately kill people and bring the country/ economy/ nhs to a standstill if uncontrolled. Ultimately, we don't know anything and so on this basis must proceed with great caution - currently the gov have displayed little willing to control virus (eg allowing people to arrive unchecked from italy). Once the gov have proved they are preventing spread by contractbtracing etc why should children and teachers enter a possibly unsafe environment?

It children travelling in cars possibly leads to so many deaths in the communities they are part of that the nhs can't even treat some cancer patients, and we are on lockdown, yes I think there would we a case for banning them!

I dont think we can seperate children inthis country from all other age groups and make them live seperately, so you have o consider the safety of children alongside the contextbof how theynlive and interact in society.

herc Could you state your source please?

I'd also point out to you that the analogy is absurd as the risk to other family members is not accounted for.

My healthy, asymptomatic, daughter brought the coronavirus home from school. Five weeks later, I am still poorly.

I think some of you really have such skewed views. Do you not see that isolation kills people? 15 women and children murdered in the first 2.5 weeks of isolation compared to 6 in the same period last year.

People are dying of non covid diseases in higher numbers because they aren't seeking treatment due to lockdown. See the ONS figures released today.

I'm not saying cancel lockdown tomorrow. But I am saying that we have to accept some people will die. People die every day from all kind of accidents and diseases. Covid19 is another disease to add to the list.

Living in lockdown for an extended period will kill the economy, people will be poorer and poverty kills.

actually looking at it I think the risks are roughly the same

makingthelink.net/child-deaths-road-traffic-accidents

60 in 2011 and I think in 2018 there were 48. So roughly 4/5 a month which as 2 months in we are on around 8 under 19 deaths (and car accidents are under 16)

So for the under 19s I think the risk is about the same actually.

Flu is an odd one in the 2014-15 108 under 14s died 2017/18 8 did so that varies

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/839350/Surveillance_of_influenza_and_other_respiratory_viruses_in_the_UK_2018_to_2019-FINAL.pdf

That is just children we are not on lockdown because of how it affects children though. its adults for whom the risk is greater. So yes for schools it really will be about transmission

That said Netherlands and France have set out their plans. I expect come Mid June we will follow a similar path of some part time schooling under the summer

Her where are your sources? My views are not so skewed that I'm interested in your views without something to back it up.

www.bbc.com/news/health-51979654

Is an interesting read

Just Google chances of dying in a car accident and the data is there.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8223969/amp/Lockdown-domestic-abuse-murders-double-three-weeks-leaving-16-women-children-dead.html
It was actually 16 women and children murdered, apologies.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000gwy8

This is an excellent show where David Spiegelhater explains how your chance of death if you get coronavirus is about the same as your chance of dying in the next year. Ie. For young healthy people death is very unlikely, for older people (80+) death is more likely.

And there's your bullshit daily mail science. Thought so.

Please take your Daily Mail and lockdown with it, without internet access. The world does not need your propaganda.

Same data however a guardian article. Happy now?
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/15/domestic-abuse-killings-more-than-double-amid-covid-19-lockdown

How fucking dare you accuse 16 murdered women and children of being propaganda. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Stop gaslighting. That's really low. Perhaps you've confused me with someone else. You were asked to prove that your child is at much risk of dying in a car accident as of dying of covid. You are the one bringing traffic murders, or in deaths in other circumstances into it at all. And no, you still haven't provided that data (straw man there, you're really doing abusers bingo here) or responded to the point that the risk does not end with the child but the adults they may infect.

"really low"... Its higher than the number of under 18s who died of covid in the same period.

"really low" yet in the past 5 years the average has been 5 murders in the same period, not 16.

So offensive.

From a quick Google, 419 under 19s were killed in RTAs in 2009. In 2019 under 15s killed in road accidents was 48 which averages about 1 per week. I can't find the exact figure for under 18 but 16-24 the deaths rose to 279 in 2019. A conservative estimate says approx 1.5 under 18s per week die from car accidents.

In March only one person under 18 died from coronavirus.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.racfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/road-accident-casualty-comparisons-box-110511.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiBuYTy4_3oAhXIQRUIHbJaBpIQFjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw29AgImQVky6if9tKlrgXCs&cshid=1587618642044" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.racfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/road-accident-casualty-comparisons-box-110511.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiBuYTy4_3oAhXIQRUIHbJaBpIQFjACegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw29AgImQVky6if9tKlrgXCs&cshid=1587618642044

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinmarch2020#characteristics-of-those-dying-from-covid-19

My colleagues teenage neighbour killed herself due to lockdown depression over Easter. Mental health problems may end up killing more kids and teens than Covid. This could be by their own hands or from parents who crack.

We should have locked down harder and quicker and we’d be on our way out of this by now. The government have made a right cock-up of this. They’re not telling us what the exit plan is because they don’t have one.

Kids cannot remain isolated from their peers indefinitely.