To be annoyed at IVF comments

[Strawberryshortcake28]

My IVF was cancelled due to CV which although was devestating I completely agree and understand money and resources need to be better spent elsewhere

What I am annoyed about is the comments I have been hearing about how it shouldn't be available in the first place on the NHS and it is a waste of money

Infertility is a disease! Caused by all different health issues imagine not being able to have your own DC
Imagine trying every month and getting your hopes up for years and years to be disappointed month on month

Imagine watching all your friends have their dc and think you'll never get the chance and feeling like you have nothing in common anymore
Imagine waking up every Xmas or mother's day with no DC to spend it with

Infertility has been the hardest experience of my life and made me severely depressed IVF gives me hope .

Yes you can go private and pay for it yourself but not everyone is in the financial position a lot of couples spend thousands on treatment with no DC at the end the NHS could be their last hope give them one more shot
Yes adoption may be an option but not everyone can be approved or is it an easy process

Aibu to be angry ?

@DellAmorenonsia

Sigh.

If you had read my message you would already know the answer to your questions. I don’t qualify for funded IVF and no I cannot afford it privately either currently. Me being impacted by my own opinion doesn’t mean I should change my opinion though, life isn’t just about me and what I want for myself and what would benefits me on a personal level. Did you know that only 4% of the research budget for Cancer go to childhood cancer? Plenty of essential medical treatments and research is currently underfunded, things that could save already existing lives. So yes, while not having natural kids will be sad for me on a personal level, if defunded IVF means more money for things that could save lives (especially kids lives) I am all for taking the loss. I would personally feel wrong to get free IVF when kids are still dying from gruesome pediatric cancers with no survival chances like DIPG, like I have unfortunately witnessed, because there is no money for research. It’s not me being “blasé”, it’s me being pragmatic.

@JustAboutHoldingItIn because it was a bit of the classic infertilty bingo. OP made a passing reference to it but actually wants to do IVF

The NHS is a choice not a given. It is tax payer funded, not a charity and needs to reflect the needs of all who need it and contribute to it. There are alternatives - those alternatives (private medical plans) sometimes offer better options to infertile women. No group should be ostracised as all groups contribute and people without children are more likely to be net contributors when considered as a family unit.

I wonder too if the group of people who believe that ‘critical’ (aka diseases that apply to me) illnesses need to be prioritised take this attitude to monetary spending on ALL levels? If so, are you requesting withdrawal of finance from the arts? Sports? Community events? none of these activities are strictly necessary? Children’s centres? And what about vasectomies? Miscarriage investigations? Because we only have money for priorities yes?

@bee222 these kind of threads bring out the worst in people. Lots of the self righteous and smug who have crawled out from somewhere to take a pop at the OP

I will confess to not having read the full thread. As someone who has suffered with infertility for 8 years and sees no end, I hear you loud and clear, and you are absolutely NOT being unreasonable.

I feel like people who had their children easily just cannot understand. It is a need. The pain of infertility is incomprehensible unless you’ve been through it.

The approx. cost to the taxpayer of antenatal care is £1,590 - £4,233. A straightforward birth with the short stay in hospital is around £3,282. Postnatal care can cost up to £1,207.

Some of us have had several naturally conceived babies on the NHS. I’m sure my choice to have more than 1 child cost more than IVF and a successful IVF pregnancy and birth.

@EL8888
Absolutely! the same people would probably scream until they are blue in the face if the NHS suddenly turned around and stopped free prescriptions for pregnant women earning over a certain threshold.
If it doesn't impact them - they don't give a shit.

This thread unfortunately brings out the worst in some people. It’s very sad. I can’t read any more. OP I hope everything goes well for you.

I also wanted to add that the body who considers and recommends funding decisions based on clinical evidence (NICE) are EXTREMELY pro funding IVF on the NHS.

The reason being is this : they look at treatments in terms of number of years health achieved as a result of treatment. In the case of IVF they are seen to improve the health of (usually) two adults for whom infertility can cause significant mental health issues such as depression. And, there is the potential for a new life to be created - with whatever the average life expectancy is (85?). That is a massive ‘return’ on treatment cost. Whereas treating an 80+ year old for cancer might cost a lot but only yield +1 year, a poor ‘return’.

So there is immense logic behind defending NHS IVF treatment.

And there needs to be a special place in hell for the “why don’t you just adopt” squad.

@Trapordo Christ you are cold. Apart from not having a biological child nothing else is different?

Well let me tell you what is different ‘apart from having a biological child’ to my life ore and post finding oIf we need IVF.

Uncontrollable crying
Out of the blue panic attacks which lead to diarrhoea.
Irrational fear my loved ones will die and I will be the only one left.
Lack of enthusiasm for life - night out, planning holidays meeting friends - all a burden
Severe loss of concentration in work and being unable to do tasks I previously flew through without a painful effort
No interest in job I previously loved or career
Hard to get up in the morning as what’s the point
Lost joy in hobbies I used to love and can’t find the energy to do them
Inability to look at other babies Or watch shows with children in without crying
Weight gain of over two stone due to emotional eating and now classified as overweight
Feelings of helplessness

And you’re saying that there’s nothing different in my life? My life is in tatters. And you would begrudge next £5k worth of treatment from the NHS.

I seriously hope karma doesn’t come back to haunt you for your cold cold attitude towards women you could be bar random chance and luck.

All of you posters are the most uncaring and horrific people I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across. I am deleting my account now and never setting foot on mumsnet again. I hope you all end up with huge misery in your lives. You deserve it.

Someone upthread mentioned a list of misconceptions. I’d agree with them all and add a couple more; the price of private Ivf is not indicative of the actual cost to the nhs; a course of ivf treatment is 3 rounds (hence the NICE guidelines) not 1 as conception in any form will always have an element of chance. Saying ‘it doesn’t always work’ and citing rate after 1 cycle is a bit like expecting chemo to work after 1 go.

@WhizzingFizzbee

I'm sorry - i'm really confused. Am I.. not living? I'm pretty sure the OP and all the other women ( or "The infertile" as you call them) struggling with fertility are also living, breathing real actual human beings with feeling, hopes and dreams.

As for your petri dish baby comment. I have reported you.

Hideous.

Infertility is not a disease.
Actually, the WHO classes it as a disease.

Infertility may be caused by a disease.
Infertility affects both women and men.
That’s the only thing you’re got correct so far.

However, the state/NHS should not be obliged to provide a child "on demand" just because people are having fertility problems.
Jesus wept. I WISH it produced a child on demand. I’d be a lot healthier & richer if it did.

The success rate for IVF is somewhere around 15%, which is a low ROI.
If it “produces children on demand” then it’s not very good at it, is it?
The success rate is actually around 40% on the first cycle.

That was just, no I have no words.

Sorry, I was talking about the petrol dish comment.

@HavelockVetinari

I said I do not qualify for funded IVF, I am not part of the NHS system, I am part of another similarly funded medical system that offer funded IVF for straight couples (and other specific cases) that don’t include mine. My opinion is still relevant because it has to do with funded IVF whether we are talking about the NHS or my own is irrelevant as is whether I personally qualify for IVF or not (I don’t) as my opinion remain the same regardless and I have already stated that yes it would apply to me and my personal situation and would impact me as much as any other woman.

Me having a certain opinion about medical funds that doesn’t match my own personal situation and doesn’t benefit me personally, doesn’t mean I can’t feel for women who crave for a biological baby and need IVF to do so. I very much get it (I also lost a baby in-utero a couple of years ago so I definitely understand the different type of loss that can come with fertility/fertility issues and the pain and suffering that comes with it).

On another token:

The current quarantine doesn’t benefit me one bit, it doesn’t mean I don’t still feel it’s the right thing for the population as whole. Not everything is personal.

Petri!

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8142988/

To compare the psychological symptoms of infertile women with patients with other chronic medical conditions, subjects completed the Symptom Checklist-90 (Revised) (SCL-90R), a standardized, validated and widely used psychological questionnaire, prior to enrolling in a group behavioral treatment program. All subjects were female and the totals in each program were as follows: 149 with infertility, 136 with chronic pain, 22 undergoing cardiac rehabilitation, 93 with cancer, 77 with hypertension, and 11 with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-positive status. The infertile women had global symptom scores equivalent to the cancer, cardiac rehabilitation and hypertension patients

But sure who gives a shit about us. Not the evil hags on mumsnet sitting with zero empathy or even human compassion for those in pain. You’re scum.

The argument that IVF is taking money away from cancer is rubbish. If funded IVF costs the NHS £68m a year (as per previously quoted article), then if they stopped funding this, do you think that that would actually go to another department? It is just another £68m the government wouldn't give the NHS in the first place.

@WhizzingFizzbee hugely inaccurate. IVF pregnancies are not automatically higher risk

@WhizzingFizzbee what makes you think ivf pregnancy is high risk? An ivf pregnancy is treated the same as any other by the nhs ie ‘normal’.

There are risks associated with multiples however, UK fertility centres are well regulated in how many embryos can be transferred. Centre outside the Uk are not. So one of the unintended consequences of pushing women outside of the nhs to pay for their own treatment is that many will travel abroad and have multiples transferred. Then voila, the nhs is obliged to deal with what’s there.

@WhizzingFizzbee

I see from your recent posts you are on maternity leave.

How nice for you. Hope you are having a nice time with your baby.

Fuck me. This site is a real shit show sometimes.