To be annoyed at IVF comments

[Strawberryshortcake28]

My IVF was cancelled due to CV which although was devestating I completely agree and understand money and resources need to be better spent elsewhere

What I am annoyed about is the comments I have been hearing about how it shouldn't be available in the first place on the NHS and it is a waste of money

Infertility is a disease! Caused by all different health issues imagine not being able to have your own DC
Imagine trying every month and getting your hopes up for years and years to be disappointed month on month

Imagine watching all your friends have their dc and think you'll never get the chance and feeling like you have nothing in common anymore
Imagine waking up every Xmas or mother's day with no DC to spend it with

Infertility has been the hardest experience of my life and made me severely depressed IVF gives me hope .

Yes you can go private and pay for it yourself but not everyone is in the financial position a lot of couples spend thousands on treatment with no DC at the end the NHS could be their last hope give them one more shot
Yes adoption may be an option but not everyone can be approved or is it an easy process

Aibu to be angry ?

I wouldn’t begrudge you a penny op. I hope the clinics start back up soon.

I can conceive naturally but have no issue with NHS IVF. Seeing the joy a baby brings, I am more than happy for my tax money to be spent on IVF for those who need it. I really feel for anybody struggling with infertility, it must cause such heartache.

For those against IVF for overpopulation reasons, how would you feel if the government brought in a 2 child rule and restricted fertile couples as well? I suspect there would be outrage.

People have killed themselves due to infertility. And I'm starting to understand how someone could get to that point

Please try and get help. I lost my husband this way after four failed IVF attempts. Infertility and the consequences long term are horrendous for a lot of people. It took me a decade to find some meaning and a glimpse of happiness in my life after my husband died.

There is so much judgement on here about who is and isn't worthy enough to use the NHS. Luckily for everyone, the NHS does not judge and luckily for all of us imperfect human beings mumsnetters are not in charge of deciding which treatments should be funded. The NHS works on evidence based medicine and the guidelines developed by NICE are the result of a lot of research into the effectiveness of a particular treatment. That's proper research not the MN gold standard half an hour on google.

What has become apparent during this crisis is that there is a magic money tree when it suits the purpose of the government. So instead of sitting on here botching about who is and isn't worthy of treatment, maybe people should start lobbying for a sustained and real increase in NHS funding so it can continue to treat everyone.

@Linning bully for you that you can afford it. I can too (have had 7 cycles, planning more). That doesn't mean I can't empathise with couples who cannot afford it and will never be able to. If someone told you you couldn't have ANY treatment you'd be as gutted and miserable as any one of those folk for whom £6k a pop is a crazy amount of money.

@DellAmorenonsisa
Really? You're comparing this to mental health issues? You do know that mental health resources are woefully underfunded and that often people have to go without because they can't afford service privately. You also realise that infertility issues can fuel mental health problems don't you?

How ignorant

@Leighhalfpennysthigh

I’m so sorry for your loss

for you, @Leighhalfpennysthigh. I'm so sorry for your loss. And thank you for your reply.

I am generally quite emotionally stable and I am lucky enough to have the support of my husband and other family and friends. I've never suffered from depression or had any serious mental health issues, but since my third and now fourth miscarriages I've felt what it's like to be in a really dark place, and I feel really scared by the obstacles we still have to overcome in our attempts to have a child.

I feel like I have had a taste of the despair and hopelessness that many other people must have to deal with every day of their lives and it is truly awful. I will look into getting some counselling.

I'm so sorry again about your husband.

I completely agree OP. Infertility is not a disease, correct, but it still is a «malfunction» of the body that can be helped by medicine.
The NHS is not limited to diseases, it helps with cosmetic issues, speech delays, autism, birth control... - note, I am not saying these are less worthy to be under NHS remit, just that they are also not diseases but that their inclusion is less controversial for some reason.

Hi OP

I think wanting a chid is such a natural instinct that I fail to see how people can be so insensitive, saying it is not a necessity and that the NHS shouldn’t fund it.

I find that so sad that other women, who have children themselves can be do dismissive of the biological urge.

I think you could argue the case for what the NHS should/shouldn’t spend money on with just about any treatment they offer.

Those that smoke, drink in excess and overweight etc... where did you draw the line?

I can’t imagine the torture of wanting a baby so much then finding out you can’t have one without intervention. I can only imagine the pain and grief it would cause. The mental heath implications I’m sure are huge for many women, so I absolutely think NHS should fund it.

I’d much prefer to see it go toward helping an infertile couple than many other things it’s wasted on....

I say that as someone who conceived the first month with both children so ive never experienced the pain and heartbreak but I bet it’s immense

I find that so sad that other women, who have children themselves can be do dismissive of the biological urge.

And yet so insistent about it when anyone asks them why they had/wanted children.

Infertility isn't a disease.

No, IVF should not be funded by the NHS when it is so appallingly underfunded. It should exist to save lives and treat very sick people. This will be my firm opinion all the while people have to have fundraisers to raise money for drugs and treatment for serious diseases that the NHS cannot afford.

@HavelockVetinari

I never said I could afford it. What an assumption. I don’t even qualify for Funded IVF as it is anyway as I am not heterosexual anyway so I like to think I am not sitting from a golden throne looking down at people who can’t afford private IVF and can’t have kids naturally and aren’t allowed a chance to have IVF. I don’t begrudge one bit women who have access and have had access to IVF funded or otherwise, more power to them.

Like I said I emphasize with people who want to be parents and can’t naturally, I get it’s hard, it doesn’t mean I still don’t think it’s a luxury to have natural kids and not a need or necessity in a currently already overpopulated world when there are other avenues that can be pursued. IVF is fairly recent, infertility isn’t, I am not a bully for stating that fact, thank you.

And I am not exempt from my own opinion applying to me btw.

For many people they don’t have enough spare cash to save 5k plus per cycle.

If someone can't save 5k, how on earth can they afford a baby? Aren't children meant to cost about 10k a year to raise?

Haven't read the full thread but what I always point out on these threads is that the NHS does not lose money by providing publicly funded ("free") IVF because it also provides privately funded (i.e. paid for by the recipient of the treatment) IVF AT A PROFIT - the NHS charges roughly the same as private clinics and provides far more non-funded cycles than funded ones

Lots of people have babies naturally who can't save £5k.

For me it comes down to need v want. Nobody needs to have children, they want to. Likewise for a lot of other procedures too.

Unfortunately the NHS doesn't have unlimited funding and resource, so I truly believe the money available should be for need only.

I’ve been fortunate enough to conceive easily. It was luck, pure luck. Of course IVF should be NHS funded! I do think they need to address the postcode lottery with it though and the guidelines on age shouldn’t be subject to CCG decision, there should be a uniform national policy.

I wonder how much it costs for IVF and the subsequent NHS care during pregnancy and birth for one child compared to those of us who have 2 or more (naturally conceived or privately IVF funded) children?

@TigerQueenie

I’m not sure it could be described as ‘want’ as oppose to a ‘need’ though. We are born to procreate. The urge is so strong for most women that’s why we do it. The urge we have is so strong to make sure we continue to procreate.

If we can’t conceive that’s going to cause a hell of a lot of turmoil. Those urges are so powerful and instinctive so it’s not as simple as saying it’s a ‘want’.

Most women find it straightforward, but for those that don’t, where does that leave them? I imagine with mental health issues.

As the NHS fund mental health issues, why not use the money to help them before they need the mental health support.

@raspberryk “ I've always thought that if it didn't occur naturally it wasn't intended to for a reason. A little like I've always maintained my miscarriage was because of something wrong with the foetus. Bodies are pretty clever”

Ah that old chestnut. So you believe that when a heroin addict or alcoholic gets pregnant naturally it’s ‘meant to be’ that their child is born screaming and with a drug addiction or feral alcohol syndrome? As after all if was natural so it must’ve been meant to be.

Do you also believe if someone has a heart attack that they shouldn’t receive medical treatment as that would be going against the body and body knows best? Or if your child got cancer then you wouldn’t treat it as that would be using science to interfere and going against the body which knows best?

For me it comes down to need v want. Nobody needs to have children, they want to.

Good for you if you don't need children.

I want a new car and for lockdown to be lifted so I can go on holiday.

I need to have a child.

@WriteAndErase I hope you are planning to contact the world health organisation and British medical council with the medical evidence you have that it is not a disease and they are wrong?

Can you outline your medical and scientific qualifications for us that lead you to the conclusion it’s not a disease or are you simply another ill informed uneducated poster spouting your mouth off about something you have no knowledge about?

I've always thought that if it didn't occur naturally it wasn't intended to for a reason. A little like I've always maintained my miscarriage was because of something wrong with the foetus. Bodies are pretty clever

If my body was clever it would make foetuses which don't have things wrong with them rather than making me suffer four miscarriages in a row.

I might have been able to be philosophical about it like you if I'd only had one and then gone on to have a healthy baby, but since that hasn't happened for me I spend most of my time cursing my body for being so stupid that it can't do this one supposedly very simple thing that nearly every other woman's body can do without too much difficulty.

I'm not quite sure why people are comparing IVF to treating lifestyle related diseases, maternity care, etc. People forget that those lives are already in existence, and so therefore it would be incredibly immoral and frankly impossible to draw a line on those types of 'choices'. No NHS maternity care? Women would die, not just their babies. Their babies health could be very poory impacted. No treatment because you chose to smoke? They're dead soon then.

I think it's horrific that whoever knows about your situation told you that IVF shouldn't be NHS funded But, I do agree. Sadly. NHS funding isn't a bottomless pit. And as sad as it is, some things just really aren't necessary for a healthy life or to continue living. But more counselling might be a good thing to invest in.

I haven't experienced infertility but I have experienced child loss. My DD was already gone when I went into premature labour. I birthed her alone with judt DH there. It was so traumatic. And we were left so angry and upset. We complained and wanted answers, and the truth was they were so short staffed that the midwives on shift needed to be more present for the labouring women with healthy, living babies. Obviously someone should've been present for my health as a woman but this was in terms of monitoring, and they knew she'd already gone. And she came so quickly, if someone was monitoring me closely they'd have caught her.

I try to take comfort in the other babies that night being safe and well as possible