To wonder how schools can realistically reopen when there is still a killer virus about with no vaccine?

[JustCantShakeIt]

I’m not talking about them reopening now, in May or June or even September.

Who is prepared to send their DC into a school with hundreds of other DC, where social distancing and keeping a germ free environment is literally impossible, even with the best wills in the world, when there is a life threatening disease floating about which is highly transmittable and you have no guarantee it won’t make your DC severely ill or die.

Social distancing just between parents will be impossible at my DC’s school of over 500 where we all have to wait outside the main gates at pick up time.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m desperate for schools to reopen before my DC turn completely feral, but I don’t see how that can happen until we have a vaccine. We’re being told to stay home and keep our distance now due to the risk, the risk will be the same next month or in 5 months won’t it?

Kazzy you're right, I should have said it was Tory ideology not austerity. Class sizes fell under Labour in the 1990s. But my point was really more that you just have to compare with other countries in Europe to see that overcrowded classrooms are not a given, but the result of ideological choices.

@LetTheCabbagesDie I have commuted in the tube in London. I have NEVER had a commuter deliberately cough in my face. Not once. Yes teenagers were coughing in each others faces deliberately at their school before lock down.
And of course commuters touch poles on tune trains. I can't stand upright if I don't do this. It is very easy to not touch your face and wash your hands as an adult. People breathing on each other in close proximity is the real issue on tube trains.

Secondaries in Denmark are not reopening, according to bbc

but @alloutoffucks what is known is that staying in it too long will ultimately cause far more damage. We need to prepare an exit strategy whilst in lockdown otherwise it will just mean lurching from one to the other. Your beloved WHO recommends that countries get good transition protocols in place.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay that is where we do agree the testing and quarantine and guidelines there are multiple threads where it is clear that our Government is useless at figuring this out. That doesnt mean it isnt a process though just that ours havent quite figured it out.

@nobodyimportant have you ever been on a crowded london tube (especially the jubliee line) with city workers getting a 4 year old to have better hygenie isnt hard

You do not have a standard-issue 4-year-old - well done to her (genuinely).

And well done to me and her teachers for enforcing basic hygiene means she's protecting herself and others.

@nobodyimportant I thought the same. It was a long time ago, but I am sure my 4 year olds were pretty revolting. Certainly with one it took a long time to stop them picking their nose and eating it. This was not a rare practise, but most days.
I guess there are 4 year olds who can play the piano well and read books well too. But we do have to look at the average 4 year old.
For a while as a SAHM I was paid to pick up a neighbours child from nursery. Every day at nursery they made a "cake" each. Always something with icing sugar and stuff that was basically mixed and pressed into shape by the kids. Some days she offered me her cake. I always used to say to - save it for mummy. No way was I daft enough to eat that.

I have NEVER had a commuter deliberately cough in my face.

I'm glad for you, I've commuted into London for the best part of 22 years and it's a regular occurrence. Human beings are grim and do not give a fuck about their hygiene.

Which is why my DH chose to cycle rather than use the tube when he was working in London. Not really an option in school though.

Depends on how far you live outside of London. Not everyone who commutes gets the tube straight away, others are on a packed bullet service from miles and miles outside of the M25,

@Quartz2208 I have never arguied against an exit strategy. But it has to be based on evidence rather than the current guesswork. If they can't even get right the week that is going to be the peak of current deaths, they obviously know very little about what is happening.
And I seriously doubt you have a 4 year old. Seriously. To say getting a 4 year old to have good hygiene is easy is laughable. Sure maybe if you have 1 and are watching them closely all the time. Could you do the same with 25 year olds? Where you are not watching each one all the time? Because the average 4 year old does not do this themselves at this age. It takes constant 1-1 supervision.

If our school opened up like Denmark we have 16 classrooms . All holding 30 so school holds 480 primary kids. 10 a class mean 160 kids will get to return. What about the other 320 kids ?

@LetTheCabbagesDie Deliberately cough on your face? Come on! You are now expecting us to believe all kinds of far fetched stuff.

And I seriously doubt you have a 4 year old. Seriously. To say getting a 4 year old to have good hygiene is easy is laughable. Sure maybe if you have 1 and are watching them closely all the time. Could you do the same with 25 year olds? Where you are not watching each one all the time? Because the average 4 year old does not do this themselves at this age. It takes constant 1-1 supervision.

Was that to me or Quartz?

Why would I lie about having a 4 year old?

@alloutoffucks It's pretty deliberate if they make no effort to cover their mouths?

We are now being expected to believe that a group of 25-30 four year olds have higher standards of hygiene than a group of adults.

Well I do have a 4 year old (and a 6 year old) and their hygiene is generally excellent. They wash their hands regularly, cough into the crook of their arms as they were told to do at school, use tissues to blow their nose then bin the tissue etc. It’s something I have tried hard to ‘train’ them into, and I know their school was also hot on teaching those things.
Then again they both read books and play the piano too .
Realistically I can see that getting 30 4 year olds to follow safe hygiene practices at all times is a challenge, but just to agree with a PP that they’re not all disgusting creatures!

I've not said that. I've said that my DD has better hygiene than I have observed in some adults commuting on trains.

They’re certainly more hygienic than a lot of the adults I see coming out of public toilets without washing their hands! They wouldn’t dream of not washing their hands after using the toilet, or before eating, or when coming in from outside for example.

@HoffiCoffi13 what has playing piano and reading books got to so with hygiene? Mine play trumpet and read books so what ?

@LetTheCabbagesDie That is not deliberately coughing in your face. That is coughing and not covering their mouths.
In my DCs school before lock down teenagers were going up to one another close and forcing multiple coughs on to another teenager. So the coughing was forced. Not the lack of hygiene you are talking about. It is different.

@Howaboutanewname agreed. I’ve been thinking about my sons’ teachers a great deal recently. I wouldn’t presume to demand schools be reopened for this reason. Although the tone of the OP seemed to suggest that parents should be concerned for their children’s safety which is absurd and alarmist in the absence of underlying health conditions.

I was replying to someone upthread said that some 4 year olds may be hygienic but some also read books and play the piano, but that they aren’t representative of 4 year olds in general.
It was a tongue in cheek response, not an actual brag.

Okay well done in raising exceptional 4 year olds who play music, read and have excellent hygiene.

I don’t want any praise for the hygiene standards thank you . Or anything else!

Have you been on a train with a group of 20 something men on the way to the city coupled with a group of construction workers when literally there is no room to fit anything else in. It’s pretty much why it was highlighted as an issue and in many ways is going to be more problematic

By and large children follow instructions and orders and when they don’t its accidental

Adults not so much!

My DD just has the good hygiene. No piano playing and reads at an average level for Reception age.