To wonder how schools can realistically reopen when there is still a killer virus about with no vaccine?

[JustCantShakeIt]

I’m not talking about them reopening now, in May or June or even September.

Who is prepared to send their DC into a school with hundreds of other DC, where social distancing and keeping a germ free environment is literally impossible, even with the best wills in the world, when there is a life threatening disease floating about which is highly transmittable and you have no guarantee it won’t make your DC severely ill or die.

Social distancing just between parents will be impossible at my DC’s school of over 500 where we all have to wait outside the main gates at pick up time.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m desperate for schools to reopen before my DC turn completely feral, but I don’t see how that can happen until we have a vaccine. We’re being told to stay home and keep our distance now due to the risk, the risk will be the same next month or in 5 months won’t it?

@Piggywaspushed but @LetTheCabbagesDie is right whereas an open plan office can be less crowded than a school a commute to school is far less than being on a commute.

We need to remember this is all about managing the process that has always been very clear and part of managing it will be opening stuff up

It's not yawn cabbage it's a fact. Open plan offices are nothing like schools!

You've misunderstood my post and I've provided clarification.

Yes, which I then followed up with the further crowding of commuter routes.

Which would become more overcrowded if all London schools were open to all students and their teachers...

Shockingly it's not all about London.

Everyone in a school will be crowded in. Not everyone commuting will be crowded. Lots of people commute in their cars into my city, for example. That doesn't make it better for people needing to use trains or buses, I'm just saying it will apply to some but not all commutes, but it will apply to all not some schools.

Well, where were you referring to with all these open plan offices and crowded commuter routes? Because there was enough concern about TfL for that to make the ppt slides everyday as a major cause for concern.

But, yes, most people live outside London, commuting. Myself included. I actually thought it was you that was referring to London, ironically.

No, I was very clear in saying my concern was for cities across the U.K.

Have you been on a commuter train recently? On some services there is very, very little space and people are quite literally squashed in together. And a lot of commuters are absolutely disgusting, they cough or sneeze over others without any consideration.

Sounds just like a school corridor, but there you have the children who parents have sent in knowing full well that they are ill because they can't/won't take time off work to look after them, or because they are scared of sanctions for too much absence from school. Then there are the ones that will deliberately cough in people's faces because they think it's funny. Oh and they aren't just standing next to the same people for the duration of a journey, they are passing tens of other children as they are all trying to make their way to different classrooms.

Danish schools are reopening today. We can look and see how they are managing all these issues.

Children do not behave like adults, because they are not adults. Until whoever is making decisions about schools understands that, then unsafe decisions will be made.

Sounds just like a school corridor, but there you have the children who parents have sent in knowing full well that they are ill because they can't/won't take time off work to look after them, or because they are scared of sanctions for too much absence from school. Then there are the ones that will deliberately cough in people's faces because they think it's funny. Oh and they aren't just standing next to the same people for the duration of a journey, they are passing tens of other children as they are all trying to make their way to different classrooms.

Very much like busy commuter trains. People go into work knowing they are ill, cough in the faces of the other commuters, touch every pole and surface available, walk past others in busy train stations coughing and sneezing on others and when in the office don't wash their hands after going to the toilet. It's pretty revolting.

Danish schools are reopening today. We can look and see how they are managing all these issues

Classes of no more than 10, so a limited reopen as far as I know.

Yes we are behind other countries so we can look and learn as to how they manage their school openings.

Maybe gradually increasing the number of key workers

I think this should be the way to go. First, look at who needs their children in school so that they can work. Maybe y10 and y12 should be prioritised because of the impact on their exams. After that build it up slowly. I honestly think the main difficulty is going to be having enough staff so building it up like that so there are reduced numbers would allow for that.

Children do not behave like adults my 4 year old DD has better hygiene practices than a lot of adults I observe on my commute and in my office.

@BurneyFanny I know nothing about Danish schools. We can only learn lessons if they have 30 kids crowded in small classrooms too. If they have 10 kids in large classrooms then it is not comparable.

Ridiculously crowded classrooms are another austerity legacy of course. My son’s class is capped at twelve.

We need to remember this is all about managing the process that has always been very clear and part of managing it will be opening stuff up

But the process isn’t that clear. If it was there wouldn’t be a million threads on this.

More to the point, to an extent, the process shouldn’t be clear at this point. We’re in a new and changing situation with new info coming in all the time. The process should be taking that into account.

Schools shouldn’t be ‘re-opening’ in any meaningful way until at least after we’ve got the testing and quarantining/isolating regime sorted out. And we seem to be a long way off that at the moment.

@LetTheCabbagesDie Glad to hear it. My teenage son, in spite of much nagging, sadly does not. Sometimes young kids are much more obedient than teenagers.

Ridiculously crowded classrooms are another austerity legacy of course.

No it's not. I was in a primary class of 40 back in the 70s and classes of 30-35 were the norm throughout secondary school in the 80s. Sharing text books was common back then too. As was sitting 3 to a desk designed for 2 people.

@LetTheCabbagesDie I agree I think it is far easier to monitor schools then it is commuters/construction workers etc.

The thing is this will happen it has too this was all about managing the first and hopefully the biggest wave. But we are going to have to learn to live with this killer virus without a vaccine as we learn to live with all the other risks.

I would like to think we can do a gradual increase on key workers from the 11th as we start to open up other areas moving onto highlighting other years but ultimately there is no other choice for us to make. Because there will be a tipping point around June time when this cure will be worse than the illness itself and we have to move on

Danish schools are reopening today. We can look and see how they are managing all these issues.

Denmark has had 299 deaths in total and the number of deaths per day has been going down since the 4th of April.

Very much like busy commuter trains. People go into work knowing they are ill, cough in the faces of the other commuters, touch every pole and surface available, walk past others in busy train stations coughing and sneezing on others and when in the office don't wash their hands after going to the toilet. It's pretty revolting.

Which is why my DH chose to cycle rather than use the tube when he was working in London. Not really an option in school though.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay Well said. I find it alarming that there is talk of coming out of lock down when so much is unknown. Last week for example we were told would be the peak of deaths. Now we are being told it is this week that will be the peak.
Widely differing figures have been estimated for what percentage of the population have had this virus. Now an app is being produced for people to self report. Except I have seen a few people convinced they have it when it sounds like they have hayfever. The truth is no one has a bloody clue how many people have had it.
How can policy be made when so much is unknown? Statements like schools are not important for transmission are being made without any evidence at all to back it up.
The criteria of who is vulnerable to dying from this was much wider, then when the government realised just how many people were vulnerable, they made it much tighter. This is now being made slightly wider. The initial criteria did not even include a lot of people undergoing cancer treatment. It was about trying to keep the group who were not low risk as small as possible. Nothing to do with reality of who is at risk.

my 4 year old DD has better hygiene practices than a lot of adults I observe on my commute and in my office.

You do not have a standard-issue 4-year-old - well done to her (genuinely).