To wonder how schools can realistically reopen when there is still a killer virus about with no vaccine?

[JustCantShakeIt]

I’m not talking about them reopening now, in May or June or even September.

Who is prepared to send their DC into a school with hundreds of other DC, where social distancing and keeping a germ free environment is literally impossible, even with the best wills in the world, when there is a life threatening disease floating about which is highly transmittable and you have no guarantee it won’t make your DC severely ill or die.

Social distancing just between parents will be impossible at my DC’s school of over 500 where we all have to wait outside the main gates at pick up time.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m desperate for schools to reopen before my DC turn completely feral, but I don’t see how that can happen until we have a vaccine. We’re being told to stay home and keep our distance now due to the risk, the risk will be the same next month or in 5 months won’t it?

Well my daughter is going back to school tomorrow when her school reopens.

@hiredandsqueak
Are you in the UK?

Norovirus kills 200,000 a year and there's no vaccine, no-one is too worried about that.

So far covid-19 has killed 120000 despite extreme lockdown in many countries and not really making it to the developing world yet. A large number of the norovorus deaths are on developing countries where there is poor sanitation, little or no supply of clean water and poor/non existent free healthcare. If covid-19 makes it to certain countries we will be looking at millions of deaths. If our NHS and Italy's have struggled to cope how on earth with a country like Uganda or Venezuela (to pick two random examples) cope.

I am sure people in the developing world are worried about their children and families contracting norovorus.

@LookStupidInEverything yes in the UK. Dd's independent specialist school reopens tomorrow with a full timetable.

How does norovirus kill people? Not dying it doesn't I'm just wondering as u thought its just a sickness bug (not saying that lightly, I hate sickness bugs and have enetophobia)

Dying=saying*

Because children are the lowest risk they will be the first to be let out. The virus will be around from now on and the infection rate is to be managed, not stopped. They are the safest cohort to have it so will be the first

What would you suggest instead?

@Rosebel

There was a,suggestion but not sure how reliable it was that closing schools hadn't been as effective in stopping the spread of coronavirus as was thought.

Not reliable at all. This was taken out of context and the research was about closure of schools on its own, with no further measures.

Of course closing schools would have limited effect if people still went to work and mass gatherings. The same could be said the other way.

So if an effective vaccine is never developed, are you just planning on never doing anything again, ever? Keeping you and your children indoors until -what? You die of old age?

People who have impaired immunity or live with people with impaired immunity/shielding won't be leaving their homes until a vaccine is available, let alone going to school (either as a pupil or staff), so there'll be many thousands of people who won't be going back to school this year at all.

Personally I'll be sending my DC back to school when they reopen. I won't think of this as putting them 'in the firing line' as the OP phrased it, in the same way that I wouldn't think that every time we get in a car or one of all the other things that pose a (very small) risk of death.

The issue with staffing is fairly easy to solve. There are lots of supply teachers out there who are currently unable to work. If the government allows vulnerable teachers to be furloughed and provides schools with the necessary budgets to use supply teachers, it would really help the issue.

If there's been a mistake on the management if this, it's been letting people (staff and parents) think that closing schools was done to protect the ooccupants of the schools. No one ever said that but it seems to have been an assumption that was never put right.

There's still little evidence that closing schools at all was the right thing to do, especially if it turns out children don't spread the virus. However while vulnerable teachers are/were advised to stay away, schools can't be reopened. Even if the advice to the vulnerable changes on a population basis, it will still be very hard (mentally) for vulnerable people to go back to work in schools. With such strong unions I expect those staff won't be back for some time yet, probably not until there's a vaccine. I've no idea how schools and the government overcome that. Most schools had a surprisingly high number of staff in the vulnerable (not shielded) category, the flu jab group and pregnancies.

@hiredandsqueak is that going against our governments advice??? Schools have been told to close and only open to key workers.

"Plenty" of supply teachers? Really? There may be now, while schools are mostly closed but in the usual course of business finding a decent supply is practically impossible.

The unions will never stand for teachers being furloughed. In any case how long could that go on for? Furlough payments are only promised to the end of May atm.

Who is prepared to send their DC into a school with hundreds of other DC, where social distancing and keeping a germ free environment is literally impossible

I am.

I would too Thripp and I'd alao be happy.to work there (in the same way that, thankfully nurses and doctors are still prepared to do what's needed). However, I know many of my more vulnerable colleagues will not feel the same way and we won't have enough staff to open safely.

I thought the idea was to just slow the spread with the understanding that most people will get this eventually but keeping vulnerable people shielded. The herd immunity then takes over.... then vaccine for everyone that needs it.
I think until the anti-body test which if reliable will show how many people have already had it, people will always worry.

However, for the fit and healthy the current situation cannot go on forever.

@Ilovechinese

How does norovirus kill people?

It causes dehydration which, if severe enough, can be harmful. It hardly ever kills healthy people in our country. It's more dangerous for older people and those with underlying conditions but a large number of its victims are in poorer countries with limited access to clean water.

I'm a teacher and the possibility that the schools will re-open prematurely worries me. People keep saying that children aren't as much of a risk but what about the staff in the schools. The percentage of staff in our school over 30 is quite high and a lot of them have vulnerable people at home. If they had the choice of staying at home then we would be drastically understaffed.

@elizabethrose all children in the school have EHCPs so would be classed as vulnerable anyway. I doubt that the school have decided to reopen without taking the necessary advice from all areas in any case. The Local Authorities will be well aware that the school is reopening as they will be paying fees and transport costs for all the children attending so it wouldn't be reopening without their agreement.

The secondary school that one of my children attends has a mere 4 children in today! It is just childcare and so some have found alternative childcare.

The comparison with norovirus in the West is entirely wrong- it doesn't kill healthy children, and I quickly googled and about 80 deaths a year are estimated over 65.

It's not the same however much we would like it to be.

Seasonal flu (of a couple of types) is more similar, though with a lesser death rate.

How does norovirus kill people?

@Ilovechinese dehydration, mainly. Once you're dehydrated enough your blood pressure drops and your heart may fail. I've had HG in pregnancy and had to be rehydrated in hospital along with IV anti-emetics as I couldn't get enough fluids to stay down at home. When I get a sick bug I can't stop being sick even if I haven't got anything inside me to throw up, I start throwing up bile instead and I get dehydrated very quickly. I go out of my way to try avoid sick bugs as I'm also an emotephobe but with four DC I get them sometimes, each and every time I have ended up in A&E on IV fluids and antiemetics.

I should have said estimated 80 deaths in England.

So, corona is a lot more deadly than norovirus (which we all kinda knew).