To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

[MangoFeverDream]

Also read up on why the government allowed this decades ago. Millions of Chinese people were starving, and couldn’t feed their kids. Yes, I am for the banning of all wildlife trade in China but that doesn’t mean I can’t sympathise with Chinese people trying to feed their families

These aren’t Chinese trying to feed their families. The wildlife trade in cities like Wuhan are driven by wealthy people.

If this happened in a remote area, it would have certainly killed a large number of villagers and then died out. But Wuhan is a huge city and regional transportation hub. So .... quite a different situation.

[Manzana]

Apparently the wet market in Wuhan did not trade in bats, which seems to be a source of the coronavirus. This is an interesting watch
blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2020/04/08/tracking-down-the-origin-of-wuhan-coronavirus-covid-19.aspx?fbclid=IwAR1veFEIhklE-C8O4TeCqxjPpVGsNWFEObjgyl7QNci1KrwctCJkUy_ICc4

[WakeAndBake]

No country is innocent, all the major players have horrible histories full of atrocities.

Yes, but China is less innocent than most. They are currently running gulags for Muslims, execute prisoners in order to sell their organs, pump out more pollution than anyone else and have enacted a 1984 social credit system designed to give the Party total control over everything.

China is literally the worst country in the world at the moment.

And yet they seem to get a pass from militant Muslims, human rights activists and environmental campaigners. All the western counties are still lining up to kowtow to that arsehole Xi while they colonize Africa.

Fuck the Chinese government.

[BovaryX]

Rising xenophobia. In China.

^The African community in Guangzhou is on edge after widespread accounts were shared on social media of people being left homeless this week, as China's warnings against imported coronavirus cases stoke anti-foreigner sentiment.
In the southern Chinese city, Africans have been evicted from their homes by landlords and turned away from hotels, despite many claiming to have no recent travel history or known contact with Covid-19 patients^

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Bovary X
Thank you for the post to me. However, much of your timeline is garbled. I highly recommend you read all the WHO reports starting with the 5 Jan report. You will note that the WHO advised China and the world against any travel or traveler restrictions until 23rd Jan, of course the Chinese were following WHO advice by allowing travel to continue up to 23rd January. The WHO even criticised Trump when he put in the Europe travel ban.
The “illegal” activity you refer to was lab workers breaking their nondisclosure agreements and posting sensitive information on SM. NDAs are very common. My SIL works in a medical lab in California and she is subject to the same restrictions.
Yes, people should be asking questions about the origin. I posted uothread the latest study I have found. Here is another link
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Again, I am not defending the type of government China has. The government of a country during a pandemic is largely irrelevant. Humans die just the same no matter who their rulers are.

[sunfloweryy]

@PlanDeRaccordement I think there is enough stigma around HIV transmission without actively comparing it to Covid which CAN be transmitted by handshakes, on surfaces etc. Not a helpful comparison and also a damaging one.

[BovaryX]

edition.cnn.com/2020/04/10/china/africans-guangzhou-china-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

So much proof on this thread that hindsight is 20/20.

The SARS outbreak killed around 800 people, MERS killed 866. A similar respiratory disease appears, acting like a SARS type disease, the expectation is that it would kill a similar number of people. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of the reason for the “cover up” is the expectation it would have a similar death toll and not wanting to further worsen China’s image at a time when they are —colonising— working on infrastructure in many countries across the world.

Unfortunately, this particular coronavirus was worse than anyone could have expected. Yes, they knew there was transmission but they didn’t know how much and how infectious it was. That’s where things went wrong. And will go wrong in the future, unless you fully lockdown any area with a novel virus which may kill 20 people, or may kill 20 million. You don’t know until it’s out in the population, and by then it’s too late to stop it.

Also can people be careful with their “facts”? We’ve already had people stating that MERS started in China (literally Middle Eastern Respiratory disease, transmitted from bats to camels, then to humans who drank camel milk or ate camel meat of infected camels) and Taiji Cove dolphin massacres are China’s fault when Taiji Cove is in Japan, the dolphin killing is done by Japanese. Also an atrocity but not one we can “blame” on China.

[BovaryX]

My timeline is not garbled. Do you have any comments about the police treatment of Dr. Li Wenliang? You do know who he is right? The whistleblowing doctor forced to confess to illegality. While business went on as usual until January 23rd I suggest you read the multiple articles from WaPo, NYT etc that have been cited by those countering your fanatical defence of China's response. Alternatively, you can keep on with your whataboutery.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Bovary,
Yes the situation in Guangzhou with the few dozen evicted African international students and business people is xenophobia. Chinese are human just like everyone else and so xenophobia will rear its ugly head.
Britain is no exception to this. Xenophobia has risen due to Coronavirus against Asian people
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/09/chinese-in-uk-report-shocking-levels-of-racism-after-coronavirus-outbreak

[BovaryX]

@PlanDeRaccordement I think there is enough stigma around HIV transmission without actively comparing it to Covid which CAN be transmitted by handshakes, on surfaces etc. Not a helpful comparison and also a damaging one

Precisely. The whataboutery is desperate.

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

@Thehop It’s ok, dolphins and whales need as much protection as they can get, it’s a hideous practice. If it’s any help, I used to live there and Japanese people of my generation are horrified by it too and many campaign for it to stop. It’s a hard balance between “tradition” and animal welfare but the balance seems to be tipping in the favour of animal welfare within Japan too thankfully.

[WakeAndBake]

@PlanDeRaccordement
To be fair MangoFeverDream, an illness with a 5% mortality rate is in a gray area to be considered dangerous.

Utter rubbish. 5% mortality with an R0 of over 2 and asymptomaic infectious victims is extremely dangerous.

Tell me, have you ever noticed the similarity between president Xi and Winnie the Pooh?

Winnie is banned in China because Xi HATES the comparison. images.app.goo.gl/GjhqmhihWKtogoyFA

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Bovary X my comment on his violation of his NDA was clear enough.
No, it was not “business as usual” until 23rd January
You really need to go to these WHO reports and read through them.
I have read Washington Post and New York Times and found that there is a distinct anti-Chinese bias in them probably to justify and stoke the flames that Trump started with his China-US trade war.

[BovaryX]

It's good to see @PlanDeRaccordement, that your response to reports of rising xenophobia in China, resulting in people being evicted from their homes and tossed on the street is yet more whataboutery. It's laughable.

[BovaryX]

@PlanDeRaccordement
You distrust the NYT and the WaPo, but you accept the official line of an authoritarian state? Your critical powers are awesome. When were international flights and travel suspended from China?

[roarfeckingroar]

@TheDailyCarbuncle wtf does this have to do with Irish history??!

[roarfeckingroar]

@Emmagen Britain ended the slave trade. Admittedly after profiting from it.

[Thehop]

@UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe that’s wonderful to hear, especially from someone who knows!

I hope one day my potential grandchildren Are horrified captivity ever happened and I live to see the tanks emptied.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Wake and Bake,
No, not utter rubbish. It’s the WHO international standard. A new disease is not considered dangerous unless it is severe.

The WHO defines severe as a disease with a “very high case fatality rate” or CFR. A CFR of 5% is on the low end.
apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/163636/WHO_HSE_FOS_15.1_eng.pdf;jsessionid=EE253BB3F2CB1E211ABD7A578B540651?sequence=1

[Traveller104]

Wet markets are where a lot of people in China do their grocery shopping for fresh meat and veggies etc!

Do you think we’d close all our supermarkets down if the next pandemic came out of marks and Spencer’s?

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Bovary since when is the WHO an “authoritarian state”?

I have not suggested you read anything originating from Chinese media or Chinese Government. Nor has any of my information come from those sources.

[ShanghaiDiva]

alexis21
Can we stop with the personal attacks?

[MangoFeverDream]

I have read Washington Post and New York Times and found that there is a distinct anti-Chinese bias in them probably to justify and stoke the flames that Trump started with his China-US trade war

What are the chances that WaPo, NYT, Caixin (first with evidence that Wuhan death toll was much higher), SCMP and FT are all biased?

Seems you are the biased one.