To speak to someone about this? Even though it could end up bad

[mugoverandover]

I've had the worst night of my life, not slept a wink,
I love in a flat where it's 2 up 2 down,
My downstairs neighbour split up with her partner a few month ago from abuse,
I think she's always been a bit of an alcoholic, she rings me most weekends but I ignore the call because she literally just drunk talks for hours. She has 2 children 3 & 14,
Last night she got so drunk she's burnt her gazebo in our shared garden, burnt loads of random rubbish on the grass, all the fire pretty much went out but I couldn't sleep for worry and I looked out of my DS's bedroom window at 6.30am and she was flat out asleep on the pavement in the back garden about half a meter away from a bit of flame still burning, I went down and got her to stand up, put her inside and to bed, her children are asleep but her back door had been absolutely wide open, I locked it and posted the key,
I'm worried for children, but I'm also worried for her,
What do I do?

Balmytissues, if I as a parent was an alcoholic and put my children at risk, then yes I would prefer that they went in to foster care and had a fighting chance of some stability and safety. Clearly this woman needs help.but in the mean time, as Ive said before, the children's safety and wellbeing are the priority.

Hi OP, I don’t really understand your last message but she is most likely still drunk - if she was out cold in the garden with a fire burning next to her, she must have been very drunk. She will just be in a lesser state of intoxication now.
Please don’t get cold feet about ringing SS, what she did was very dangerous and those kids probably need help.

Please please please don't listen to the people telling you not to report. I've seen it so many times, people protesting that social services are child snatchers and they ruin lives. But when you look at the details, that child should have absolutley been taken away from that situation.

A local case got people up in arms, people vilified social services but they didn't know the details (rightly so). The public rarely do know the full details so the pitchfork mentality is pointless.

I am also very wary of parents who have experienced social services of have had their children taken. Of course they are going to say they are the bad ones. That they've snatched a child for no reason.
But it's NEVER for no reason. It's after a lot of intervention, support and guidance. If that doesn't work then the only option is to get them to safety.

Have you rang social services yet? Could you really live with yourself if you didn’t call and something happened to the kids which it probably will by the sounds of it.

I imagine she is still drunk but able to cover it up very well.

Ask your self if you could ever live with your self if anything happened to her children? Not only that if she's starting fires in the garden what's to say one day she won't get drunk and set fire to her house putting her children and you and yours in danger. Prehaps ring a domestic violence line to see if they can intervene with her and report her to social services. You need to protect your self and your child in this situation too! Mental health she might have which could escalate and you then don't no what she could do if she goes into crisis.

Balmytissues it’s people like you scaremongering that stop social services being able to do their jobs and protect children.

If you’ve had no answer from social services then please phone the police, it’s what they are there for and in this time of reduced services will help guide other support services. Her children are still at risk this morning.

@balmytissues I'm sorry you've had that experience but I don't think your advice is helpful. Without going into detail, I've seen several kids who are far better off being in foster care and who are now thriving as a result. I've also seen parents do what they needed to, with the support of SS, and got their children back (who have subsequently been taken off the child protection register) as a result, and it wouldn't have happened had it not been for the intervention. I'm not saying they get it right all the time but generally speaking it's not a job you go into if you don't care about the kids involved.

Personally I wouldn't be telling anyone (including your next door neighbour that you're friends with) that uou are going to report her. You should report her to SS, but she could turn on your if she feels things go wrong. You have to continue living there unless you want massive upheaval so report, but keep it to yourself.

OP do you know which school the older child attends? If it’s possible that the older child often has to take on the care of the younger child then they could be classed as a Young Carer. These children are in the “vulnerable group” that schools are currently concerned about; not yet under the care of Social Services but on the edge.

You can make an online report to the NSPCC and include as much info as possible such as school. It might be that the child is already on school’s radar and the home school link worker can contact them. I don’t think school would discuss with you directly but would talk to the NSPCC or other appropriate agency.

If you do know the school, have a look at their website and search for their safeguarding policy. Most schools will have written additional Covid-19 policies.

Please don't allow this to be minimised and called "less than ideal".

It's true that removal of the child is not the right thing for many families but please know it's also highly likely that there will be much more cause for concern than you have actually witnessed.

Any competent adult who knowingly fails to act to protect a child from abuse is also partly responsible.
If anyone is in disagreement, please look at some real life cases such as Gabriel Fernandez before jumping in to tell OP she is wrong.

I personally don't believe there is such a thing as being too cautious when it comes to a child at risk. And I say that as a (young) qualified professional with over 10 years experience of working with vulnerable people, both young people and adults. That does not make me the most knowledgeable person who may comment but I have seen for myself the consequences of neglect like this.
Finally, be sure that neglect is also considered a form of abuse. You have grounds for a report for that alone.

Op

Your last message is very concerning

You’re not going to do a bloody thing... are you?? You’ve talked yourself out of it.

Can't even believe you have to ask. Of course you bloody have to report it. You've left a three year old in the care of someone completely unconscious due to alcohol. I would have called the police if it were me. And stop trying to excuse her behaviour.

I had the same situation with my neighbour. Also had to pick her up and put her to bed . I had to get involved as I never wanted her kids to come to me and say that I knew what was going on and did nothing to help them.
She died recently and her grown sons said Thank you to me for trying to help her and them.

She's probably already had a drink this morning, to stop the shakes and minimise the hangover. Hopefully, with it being a communal garden, someone else will have the guts to advocate for the children, as the OP doesn't appear to be overly concerned any more. I'm surprised no-one called the fire brigade when she set the gazebo on fire last night, tbh.

I did a placement with health visitors and social workers in January and they won't take her children away, they will offer help for her and her children and offer lots of support, but she has to be willing to do it. Please call them

Phone the Out of Hours desk for social services

just do it

I post as the child of alcoholics and maybe they might have got their shit together if they had been faced with some dire consequences. But they weren’t and it continued endlessly.

Balmytissues your posts are really fucking unhelpful.

OP report this. Don’t be a coward, be brave for those children and do the right thing.

She was drunk enough that she thought setting fire to a gazebo in retaliation for her pissed friend hurting herself was a good idea. I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but what happens if next time she's hammered, she decides her sofa has done something wrong? Or her 3 year old?

And she is absolutely 100% still intoxicated RIGHT NOW after a bender like that.

Balmytissues your responses are very angry, have you had experiences of social workers as a parent I wonder? You come across very bitter about something and I suspect they have intervened where you didn't think it was warranted.
If your experiences were as a child, you really can't begin to understand why they take the action they did and I can understand you feeling bitter, but there is always reason.
It is very very hard to remove children from their parents and everything is done to try and keep them in the family home first. The exception to that is when there is an incident that puts the children at imminent risk of harm and the police can remove immediately.
I work in childrens safe guarding and a chat over a cup of coffee is exactly how it proceeds, assuming parent is open to engagement. An assessment is carried out and a team of professionals will offer support.
If the parent will not engage, then of course it will be escalated. The professionals would be negligent if they didn't proceed up the ladder of safeguarding.
If a parent engages and works to make the changes, then involvement is stepped down accordingly.
If the parent engages but changes aren't made or sustained, then again they have to progress it.
No worker works in isolation. Any action a social worker takes is done after supervision and discussion with management. Many meetings are held and several professionals involved.

This OP has no option but to report this incident or she is complicit in the neglect of these 2 children.
We cannot assume there is enough food in the house for the 14yr old to ensure they are fed, nor can we assume there is money available for the 14yr old to go and get food.

OP please update us and well done for reaching out

OP you must report this. If not police or SS then NSPCC.

You need to put the children at the centre of this situation. Their home life is concerning and unsafe; the care giver thinks her GAZEBO was causing trouble.

Lockdown means those children have no access to nursery or school where they might previously have had some sort of routine and structure. Now they don’t have even that.

None of us knows what is going on in that house but please don’t think “what if I’m wrong?” and DO think “what if I’m right?”

@Balmytissues except it's not about the mother here is it? It's about the health and safety of the two kids.

While the outcomes of foster care aren't always great, I'd rather take that risk than the risk of them being burnt to death because their Mother PURPOSELY set a gazebo on fire ...

You need to call social services, you dont need to discuss it with another neighbor. Find and call the out of hours duty team for your area.

I know what you're afraid of but social care dont remove children without good reason and if that's what ends up happening eventually then that's not on you for reporting, that's on her for not being able to act as a protective factor for her children and ensure they are safe.

Instead of thinking about the what ifs of reporting, consider the what ifs of not reporting: what if one of her kids finds her in that state? What if next time the fire spreads to the house? What if one of the kids gets out the unlocked door or the 14 year old runs away or harms themselves because they can't cope? Etc.

You know reporting is the right thing to do.