Will Boris now fund the NHS properly?

[Moominmammaatsea]

Today’s papers are reporting that Boris can’t thank his doctors and nurses enough and that he is crediting the NHS with saving his life. AIBU to wonder if the PM will now have a change of heart and fund the NHS properly and reward all its workers with the pay rise he voted down before?

No. He's a Tory. A Tory with a nice majority. His grateful thanks are all the reward nurses and the NHS will get. What did we think the Thursday clapping was for? If we elevate people to angelic/heroic status, we don't want to think of money in the same context. We're being shown that they are too self-sacrificing to be motivated by money and that our appreciation is what keeps them going.

Afterwards it will be the Pied Piper of Hamelin once the risk is gone. Call me a cynic, but watch and see.

No.

Can someone with a privileged background such as his, someone who's parents could afford to pay £££££££ for him to go to private schools such as Eton, really resonate with why the working class value the NHS and our free healthcare?

My own skeptical opinion is that he used the NHS in his own illness to seem 'like the rest of us' and understanding of NHS services. Because let's face it, he could have afforded to go private?

there is no private ICU.

I’m no Tory or Boris Johnson dan but I really don’t think he’s been using his illness (so far. Later on he might exploit the sympathy vote/popularity surge for overcoming it). He’s been very ill and I am glad he is getting better.

no fan not no dan

There desperately needs to be some control imposed on what the NHS are prescribing - the abuse of free prescriptions has to stop.

Agreed. I was in hospital a while ago for some surgery, now I'm a smoker (flame away), not heavy by any means so as far as I was concerned, I just didn't smoke and if I craved it, tough shit I couldn't have one.

I was baffled when a nurse came around with the drugs trolly and gave me my normal prescribed meds and then asked me if I wanted a nicotine patch as I'm a smoker!! A patch!!??

If I was craving nicotine in that situation (I wasn't), that's tough shit, what are they doing spending money on that? I couldn't believe it to be honest.

Even if Prescription charges were scrapped, it would cost around £600 million out of a budget of 135 billion.
At £9 per item, we charge a lot more than most other countries.

The NHS isn't going to be saved by stopping prescription fraud or limiting the use of patches.

As i linked to earlier, the NHS is a very efficient healthcare system.

The NHS isn't going to be saved by stopping prescription fraud or limiting the use of patches.

Saved no, but surely spending money on nicotine patches to give to patients whilst in hospital is not great. I guess their thinking is that at least they aren't outside puffing away. But it doesn't sit well to be honest.

An, so it's not because you imagine there would be a financial benefit, it's because you don't like to think of some sick people getting free medication.

Welcome, Mr. Trump

@Sandybval I think it used to be centralised but it went regional because it was err inefficient.

That's the understatement of the year.

It meant there was no way for anything to be sourced from anywhere other than the scentral source. So eg the Hospital I worked for was part of HA that had an old Victorian asylum which had things like a printing service run by patients with learning disabilities, the hospital had utilised that and printed patient letters for free. Then the department suddenly had to get the letters from source.

Then the batteries. There is a thing called a holter monitor, it records your ECG for 24 hours, non stop.

We got our shipment of batteries, the first set didn't work, the second didn't (you occasionally got the odd batteries that didn't work) at that point the patient was asked to go get a coffee while we phoned the holter manufacturer.

It turned out the reason they recommended one brand of batteries was because the other manufacturer put a coating on the contacts.

So you had highly skilled staff scrubbing the contacts of batteries for 10 mins.

Then when it came to large pieces of equipment, think ultrasound or X-ray. Three hospitals would put in three requests to companies A, B and C, there are reasons each department wants a different machine, instead the 'central procurement' would go to company D and negotiate a reduced price to buy three machines, non of which were ideal and some of which meant other equipment wasn't compatible.

Sorry - rant over.

When I rule the world all NHS management will spend 1 week a year doing a range of shifts in different departments.

When I rule the world all NHS management will spend 1 week a year doing a range of shifts in different departments.

Absolutely right. I see things haven't changed in the NHS since I gave up working for it 32 years ago and went off to private health. My own view then (and now) was that they had made a big mistake in increasing the number of hospital administrators hugely in a short time, creating lots of unnecessary posts and thus far too much red tape. I had been working in a big London teaching hospital that, when I joined, seemed to work very efficiently. At the time I believe we only had about 12-15 administrators (certainly, their department was quite a small one within the hospital and they had much less power - doctors actually had an influence then) - when I left, about 13 years later, they had about 70 administrators (including posts like "Information Officer", who then of course, needed their own secretary/PA despite the fact they had not replaced about 30 medical secretaries who had left and failed to see why that was a bad thing). Our (cardiac surgery) waiting list had declined, due to administrators arbitrarily cancelling operating lists, from an efficient system we ran that meant we had a maximum waiting list of two months to patients having to wait six months to a year, inevitably meaning some would not survive the delay (now I think it is 18 months). The final straw for me (as a medical secretary) was receiving a memo to say we were using too many ball point pens and we should share them.

It seems to me that there is a HUGE waste of the NHS money by ignorant management making the rules/decisions without reference to the people who actually know what is necessary. The arrogance is amazing and it is making the service to patients much the poorer. Think how much money could be saved by halving (at least) the hospital management team - I can't think it would make matters any worse and might well make them better.

When I rule the world all NHS management will spend 1 week a year doing a range of shifts in different departments.

Nice idea, but a lot of management positions are already filled by ex clinical staff. That's a lot of the problem - they're clinicians, not managers/administrators, so don't have the knowledge and experience of management, nor have they seen life outside the NHS. They're the ones who are making decisions based on their limited experience of working on the wards etc., but no experience of how things are done elsewhere, no new ideas etc. It's what perpetuates the "always done it that way" approach. It's the "inbred" ideas that often cause the problems.

The real answer is a sensible mix of people - some with clinical experience within the NHS, some with managerial experience outside the NHS, etc., to get the best of all Worlds. McDonalds have it right - their board is a mix of professionals, some from within and some outside the food industry, plus some who've worked their way up from the shop floor. You can't expect any single manager to have all the experience/qualifications/knowledge, so you need a mix of people with different facets working together.

We mustn't forget that in 2017 the Tories voting against lifting the cap on nurses' and firefighters' salaries included those we've been seeing at the podium praising and protecting the NHS: Johnson, Patel, Gove, Hancock, Sunak...

Their hearts may have softened but has their thinking changed? Will Trump still be invited to slice and dice NHS services to private US firms?

We'll see.

It seems to me that there is a HUGE waste of the NHS money by ignorant management making the rules/decisions without reference to the people who actually know what is necessary.

And the opposite is true. Huge waste of resources by management who've spent their lives in the NHS and simply have no knowledge/understand of how things are done differently in other industries nor any ability to take advantage of new technology, new ideas, etc. It's why the NHS is probably the last extensive user of faxes and posted mail when the rest of the world has moved to the internet for communication.

Well to fund the NHS properly we all need to pay more into it. I'm happy to. How about you?

We mustn't forget that in 2017 the Tories voting against lifting the cap on nurses' and firefighters' salaries

Nor Brown/Blair for giving GPs such a whopping pay rise they could afford to reduce their working hours, which has crippled the GP system ever since.

The NHS is funded properly, it's just terrible run and people are used to abusing it.

Well to fund the NHS properly we all need to pay more into it. I'm happy to. How about you?

As long as the money is spent wisely, yes. But they have to fill the holes in the leaky bucket rather than just pour more water in. We need more front line workers and more equipment. Let's not repeat Blair/Browns mistakes of trebling NHS spending on vanity projects like new hospitals that were more like hotels/shopping centres which will cost billions for years to come under their PFI schemes.

Boris had doctors and nurses by his side at all times. Boris probably thinks the massively preferential treatment he got is normal, and even if he doesn’t he’s not about to start giving a fuck about the proles now is he?

In a year when it’s more expedient to do so he’ll say that it was his superior strength and fortitude that got him through corona, and if other people had been as conscientious about their health as he then they would also have survived.

If by some miracle the NHS manages to cope with corona without going into full blown collapse it’ll be because it’s just fine, no investment necessary. If the NHS does crumble under corona it’ll be too costly and inefficient to save and will be sold off to american investors.

Either way the magic money tree will suddenly stop producing fruit until a new vanity transport project materialises.

There, I’ve just written the conservative health strategy for you. You saw it here first.

Buffoon.

Let's not repeat Blair/Browns mistakes of trebling NHS spending on vanity projects like new hospitals

Though to be fair they did a better job than the SNP. The Labour PFI funded hospitals may cost four times their build price by the time the NHS has finished paying for them in many years time, and may be costing some trusts 17% of their annual budgets every year just on servicing this debt, but at least they are usable unlike the SNP’s Edinburgh Children’s Hospital.

I imagine a lot of difficulties could be helped if those NHS trusts had an extra 17% in their budget now but people still say ‘labour paid for a better NHS’ and ignore the fact that they used today’s money to do so.

The PFI scandal is such a good example of why the NHS is in the state it's in, would any of us (with absolutely no experience) draw up such a ridiculous contract which meant we'd be paying what it would cost to build 4 hospitals for 1 hospital.

These are the sort of dicks they have drawing up contracts, in charge of negotiating contracts and spending massive budgets.

The NHS has a contract with NHS supplies and they pay over the odds for absolutely everything in the lovely glossy books they send you. (Not sure if they still do but when I worked there they did, the glossy books that is). Everything from a packet of crisps to a lightbulb were more expensive than on amazon or Asda or anywhere else.

You'd have nurses refusing full time hours but bumping up their income and our wage bill by working the rest of their hours as bank staff which would mean we paid a fortune in agency fees. This needs to stop.

The NHS doesn't need anymore money it needs the public to stop abusing it and for it to be run efficiently.

One of the problems is that a lot of Labour's PFI hospitals are barely usable. Our local one has nowhere near enough parking spaces so you have to arrive at least an hour before your appointment. You then walk into an absolutely massive atrium with a Costa coffee and a M & S, which looks very impressive until you go to the tiny crowded waiting rooms without enough seating, really small treatment room, and toilets where you have to stand back next to the toilet in order to shut the door. 🤢 It's so badly thought out that it's not even funny. The hospital doesn't necessarily need to be bigger, but the spaces are just incredibly badly designed.

No

Don’t be daft. As soon as this passes life will go on as normal and low skilled workers will again be abused and treated like crap.

Bloom. You are SO right. If you give these daft twits more money they will really not know how to spend it and will waste it. I have heard the story about nurses as well and it shouldn’t be allowed that you are an employee of the hospital and then allowed to be free lance too,

Last year I applied for a role in a leading Hospital as a middle manager and it took them months to let me know I had been granted an interview. I was interviewed by a panel of 3 one of which was dressed in jeans and a black sabbath t shirt. I was told a decision would be made within a week. I chased after two weeks, no answer. I then chased the central recruiting team who responded after 2 chases who addressed me by the wrong name and also got the role I applied for wrong!

I didn’t want the role but honestly they were a hot mess and a few months later got a alert that the job I didn’t get/never heard back from was recruiting. Same salary, same recruiter, word for word the same role. What a waste of their time and mine.

So, we need to be very careful who we give the money to. In the wrong hands it will be spent on back office/consultants and nothing much will change.

As for giving the money to the sort of people I dealt with as a supplier? Just no!!