They can shove their hand clapping and pot banging Thursdays up their arses for me, now.

[TheLadyAnneNeville]

I’m disgusted with Mr Hancock and our Govt.’s stance on there being no “likely” direct link to COVID19 deaths and lack of PPE.

They’re clearly shitting themselves at the prospect of having NOT shifted themselves soon and reacted by trying to get the equipment necessary to protect those in the frontline. As a retired nurse I’m f***g furious on my colleagues behalf.

Typical Tory “run away!” reaction.

AIBU to think that when this is over, political heads should roll? That under no circumstances should the “heroes” of this debacle, end up sitting in the Lords?

OP, is there any scientific proof that any HCP who died actually contracted the virus from a patient they were treating?

They have shipped millions and millions of items off ppe
they are struggling like any organisation would because
it's like saying can we order
10 million aprons
10 million masks
5 million litres of sanitiser
10 million gloves
and can we deliver them to 78,000 locations
by 9 am tomorrow
they are struggling for a number of reasons
no imports
limited number as no supplier can afford to keep shelves and shelves of unsold stock
the scale off it
horrendous situation but think any organation would struggle.

just distasteful that it's used to incite political point scoring and troy kicking ANY party would be struggling .

And as people have said it not the tories who ask you to clap.

Who needs PPE when we have The Clap?

it's fine really because NHS workers on the front line are being given free access to some kind of mindfulness app

It won't protect them from getting sick or dying but they will at least think positive thoughts and not make a fuss as they lie there in ICU

Agree that we should never have become so dependent upon foreign countries to supply our necessities. But I disagree that acting 3 months ago wouldn't have helped - if we knew that it was difficult to buy from China (for ex) the govt ought to have been looking for alternatives that could be produced on the UK. Okay, maybe the materials wouldn't have been perfect but anything would have been better than this current situation.
The government have been criminally negligent imo but Labour would not have been any better. They are a party who think men can be women just because they say they are - with such a lack of understanding re basic biology, would you really trust them to do a better job of managing a pandemic?

Soontobe60 Sat 11-Apr-20 15:25:52
OP, is there any scientific proof that any HCP who died actually contracted the virus from a patient they were treating?

Of course, they didn't contract from a patient they were treating.

No, HCPs are just incredibly careless people who go round shaking hands with everyone outside of work. Their careless conduct outside the workplace is what causes a disproportionate number of HCPs to contract the virus and die.

OP, is there any scientific proof that any HCP who died actually contracted the virus from a patient they were treating?

Are you serious?

Are you suggesting that it is not dangerous to work on the front line without PPE?

In time it will be possible to determine exactly where HCP contracted the virus by studying DNA and the RNA mutations of the virus. By then it will be too late for the HCPs concerned although not too late for bungling officials to be held to account

They have shipped millions and millions of items off ppe
they are struggling like any organisation would because
it's like saying can we order
10 million aprons
10 million masks
5 million litres of sanitiser
10 million gloves
and can we deliver them to 78,000 locations
by 9 am tomorrow
they are struggling for a number of reasons
no imports
limited number as no supplier can afford to keep shelves and shelves of unsold stock*
the scale off it
horrendous situation but think any organation would struggle.

of course you are quite correct

It's not as if epidemioligists the world over have been advising governments to stock up on such things for years is it?

Oh wait ..........

This video goes some way to describe why nobody pays much attention to experts who warn of very bad things, whether it is market crashes, pandemics or anything else

www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo

BeardyButton "The people clapping elected this gov, with the full knowledge that they had underfunded health and ed, dismantled much of the wefare system and given full freedom to the gig economy. Political choices coming home to roost now, esp in UK and US. Im with you OP, virtue signalling while voting for own swlf interests. Vomit!!!!"

No I bloody didn't! Where is the evidence that everybody clapping voted Tory? Not here in Scotland that for f*ckin' sure!

Can't believe that our street's one minute of clapping (and waving to each other) on a Thursday evening at 8pm can mean we all voted Tory.

I sort of agree with you. We had time as a country to put measures in place to prepare for this pandemic, but they were ignored. I read somewhere that when Jeremy Hunt had undertaken an exercise to look at what was needed in the event of a pandemic - but the findings ignored.

The government has definitely fucked up and should be held to account. There are definite problems with not getting the right equipment to the right people in time.

The clapping is nonsense and particularly ridiculous when many of the people out doing it each week either abuse the NHS normally or vote Tory.

However, covid is everywhere and has infected more people than the numbers suggest and so no, without rigorous testing and contract tracing, we cannot say whether a HCP contracted the virus through lack of PPE.

OP, is there any scientific proof that any HCP who died actually contracted the virus from a patient they were treating?

Of course not. Everyone knows they got it from the cheap beer virus fairy. That's why we are required to clap,cheer,car honk etc. at regular intervals. The loud noises keep the pesky buggers away.

I agree with you OP. We had a few weeks head start on Italy Spon and France and yet we did nothing. I think we were still having large scale sporting events when Ireland was in lockdown. They have been much slower than other countries to ramp up the testing. People will have died and will die because of their lack of action.

I dont understand why people arent more angry at the government. And on lots of social media stuff that I see there lots of comments about how Boris has done such a great job. People seem to have really low expectations

My sister is an a And e nurse and she and her colleagues believe that the recent downgrade to PPE requirements by PHE is merely a cynical move to prevent NHS colleagues being able to sue when the equipment they have access to proves to be inadequate. It is shocking..

It’s not really Tory is it? All governments are struggling even China.

They tell us gloves and masks don’t work half the time anyway.

people who are supposed to be educated should take some accountability and perhaps talk to their trust or procurement manager - don’t do it if you aren’t happy - get it yourself and charge it as expenses -

I think we can also say there is a high degree of probability that frontline healthcare workers contracted the virus from the numerous patients with the virus that they are in close proximity to for 12 hours a day rather than through their one weekly trip to the socially distanced supermarket

Viral load. A well known phenomenom.

Indeed, @TwentyViginti - I'm rubbish with science, and even I can understand that. Why can't theTories? Oh, wait.. It doesn't suit their Budget.

The right PPE works absolutely fine.

Don't know why the media aren't holding them to account, it's terrible I normally watch the news programme on BBC but I find them really poor at challenging MPs and Ministers. Piers Morgan just shouts. I've started watching the Sky breakfast programme, I think it is Kay Burley who is very polite, not shouty, but she doesn't let them get away with it. She has to give in eventually but she keeps at them for long enough to show them up.

I understood your point OP! I agree - I was disgusted at that comment that there may not be a link between the deaths of NHS workers and theirs. I know only one person with covid - brother of a colleague - yet my doctor next door neighbour know bloody loads of her health care colleagues at the hospitals around here who have it. It's insulting to suggest it is not due to their job.tht

Some people do it, some people don't. It doesn't mean they don't care. I don't clap but it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the NHS any less than the people who do clap. Weirdly enough, the Whatsapp cheerleaders locally for the "NHS clap" are mainly UKIP/Brexit Party voters, who are/were completely unaware of their parties' stances on the NHS and private insurance.

Additionally, they've started publishing shame lists of people who didn't clap ! Some people don't clap because they're busy doing something else. Some people don't clap because they think it's meaningless. Some people don't clap because they forgot. If you expect people to clap and criticise people who don't, then they do it because they are expected to do it, not because they feel strongly about it, and THAT becomes totally meaningless. Ask the people who work in the NHS what they want.

Whilst clapping shows that some people appreciate what healthcare professionals do, to be honest, I think they'd rather have beds, protective gear, and for nurses and HCAs a living wage, and to be able to go to work not worrying constantly about whether they will catch a potentially fatal disease.

Sadly, for some, clapping is overwhelmingly about making the clappers feel good about themselves, not offering any practical assistance to the healthcare profession - just ask any nurse or doctor.

And as people have said it not the tories who ask you to clap. I don't think everyone clapping is a Tory voter but the Tory voters clapping are hypocrites, particularly people like Johnson, Gove, Raab and Hancock.

Don't forget, they cancelled the NHS debt.

I'm sure the American Healthcare companies hoping to buy the NHS are delighted with that decision.

That doctors death will be in vain sadly. Once this is all over, the tories will go back to taking as much money as possible from public services to filter away into their pensions.

The govt is looking long term and knows that it will get its arse handed to it when people start suing it for not listen to the warnings, and advice given it, weeks before it actually DID something. So these speeches of "we have enough PPE it isnt being used properly by the NHS" are to start covering its back and shift the blame.

In my opinion, of course

Totally agree with you OP. It's a shame that some people on this thread would rather stick there head in the sand.

@ the comment 'how can a government of any colour magic up PPE'. The fact is the government had PRIOR WARNING this pandemic was heading this way and could have moved faster to prepare the equipment and supplies needed. They didn't order the PPE required and are now on a damage limitation exercise at the nation's expense. It truly is a shit-show!