Why are teachers not teaching live lessons online

[Shouldistayorshouldimove]

This is not a teacher bashing thread.

Talking online with another mum in my son’s class today, both ourDCs are in p1 (Scotland). She is outraged that teachers next term will be posting work online rather than actually teaching using Zoom etc. Her argument is that universities are doing it so why aren’t teachers? And how is she supposed to work from home and educate her children?

Personally I don’t think teaching a bunch of 5 year olds a live lesson using Zoom is going to be all that effective and would probably require quite a lot of supervision anyway. AIBU to think that tasks posted online are quite sufficient given the circumstances? So as not to drip feed, I am also working from home with 2DCs.

Our school does it. Not for every lesson, but they do it. Of course we have the tech. I’d not heard of the safeguarding (of teachers) before this thread. None of my teacher friends have mentioned it. Some are working very hard. Some are not. It’s like any profession I guess.

I’m in Scotland. My kids teachers are still in looking after keyworkers and putting up daily plans and resources. Fine by me. I’m still working, I need my laptop for that - imagine if I had to give it over so she could log in for online lessons. Would be far to stressful to juggle that and my own work. Right now I can follow the plan of things they have suggested and print stuff out. Far easier and far more flexible.

I wonder which of the 200 children in my school should be allocated the 7 tablets we have.

I reiterate the point I made above. Other countries seem to have much better technology available within education. I'm sure years of cutting education spending to the brink in this country might have something to do with that.

It would take more than effort to conjure up tablets out of thin air, maybe MPs could pay for them with their extra 10000

That's what gets me - surely it's not as easy as saying yeah, let's put lessons online!
Not everyone's going to be lucky enough to have internet access at home, tablets or not.
Tasks posted online should be enough tWe're luckyhat way
It's an extra expense not everyone has at their fingertips.
There was libraries and after school clubs you could go to, but they're all shut now.
We're lucky to have it but aware a lot don't.
Should be paper work set too (we got some of that as well just in case schools closed)

Can you imagine the outrage if a teacher dictated what time children had to be online?

People are being unreasonable enough as it is already.

Mine have had to do their school stuff in the afternoon and early evening because the Internet, despite supposedly being shit hot fast, is dire in the morning now that so many people are at home.

That’s even before safeguarding and access to devices

Also depending on where in Scotland you are some teachers are working long hours with keyworker kids.

North Lanarkshire, for example, is doing 8-8 cover plus some at weekends

Lots of reasons as to why online, live teaching isn't happening as standard have already been offered. Safeguarding of teachers is important - I certainly don't want to be filmed and turned into an offensive meme - and so is safeguarding of children, in all sorts of ways including not beaming familiar adults into their homes (and potentially bedrooms if there are multiple family members trying to access live teaching/work calls), ensuring security of whichever platform is used, somehow monitoring what happens between attendees whilst at a 'live' lesson (some of the platforms mean it's possible for individuals to send one another messages that aren't seen by the host) etc. etc. Requiring teachers to prepare, record and upload an introductory video for each lesson sounds like a reasonable request but even the uploading can be a barrier if your wifi is rubbish. I'm in London, zone 2/3 and at home it takes between 5 and 17 hours for me to upload a 10-30 minute video from a school device to the secure portal. Whilst that's happening, I can't use the device for anything else or it goes on strike. If I'm uploading to the portal whilst sitting in my school, it's done in a matter of minutes but we're not at school, which is the issue.

In my own home, DH and I are both teachers and we have Y10 and Y6 DC. DH teaches secondary and although he's not currently providing live teaching, he's constantly available to students for queries, support and feedback about the tasks he's set. Ordinarily, if one student asked for clarification about something, he'd respond and most of the other students would then not need to ask the same question. With the online tasks, he seems to be repeatedly responding to similar questions because the students aren't able to see each other's questions. If he updates the original task to clarify, they don't necessarily see the update. It's a tiny thing but what takes 30 seconds in the classroom is taking a good 15 minutes or so like this.

Eldest DC's school is setting work via Show My Homework. The teachers have been brilliant at setting work without needing to video themselves either because they've found existing videos online or because they've gone for tasks that don't rely heavily on stable broadband connections. Youngest DC doesn't have a device so we've resurrected an old laptop for temporary use. It doesn't have a webcam because of its age. It's also very loud and whirry. Having both of them trying to access their school networks whilst DH and I access ours hasn't worked because our wifi doesn't seem to have the capacity. And that's without trying to teach live.

We're lucky in that our DCs are very independent and can get on with the work their teachers set without needing anything from us (beyond devices and wifi). That's not the case for all teachers though. A good friend of mine teaches at an independent secondary school. He has two young children aged 6 and 8 and is expected by his school to deliver a full day of online teaching from home. He's a widower. His children need input and reassurance from their only parent. They've already experienced the death of their other parent and their anxiety (as well as his) about what happens if he gets ill, is already high. It's not feasible for him to deliver a full day of teaching (and then do all the marking etc) whilst simultaneously meeting the needs of his bereaved children. His children could access the childcare provision at their primary school but he doesn't feel as though he's really a genuine keyworker given he'd only need childcare to teach from his own home. Sending his DCs to the childcare provision would also put them at greater risk of being exposed to Covid-19 which he doesn't feel able to do. He's suggested compromises such as doing one hour live per day, providing live introductions to each lesson etc. but the school isn't showing any compassion or flexibility. Unless the school changes its tune within the next week, it's likely that he'll take the GP up on her offer to be signed off work due to stress. That would mean his students miss out on any input whatsoever from a brilliant and diligent teacher which would be a shame. I suppose that's the risk his school will be taking if it chooses to prioritise the 'service as normal' message over showing a bit of flexibility and compassion towards those teachers who need it.

Mine have had to do their school stuff in the afternoon and early evening because the Internet, despite supposedly being shit hot fast, is dire in the morning now that so many people are at home.

Same. a lot of the stuff set is on sites impossible to get on during the day.
We (sometime!)s have success if we log on early evening.
Looking at you, Maths website!

And how many people currently live close enough to a free hotspot? I do, but only in places that are mainly closed now, and all we have left is the local hospital about 10 miles away. Erm, not a chance would anyone really want to sit there for 6 hours.

Also at the moment, all the devices needed are under none essentials, so how are people supposed to buy these assuming the money actually exists? Ok by some miracle they do, what are the chances of delivery anytime soon considering people still cannot get a grocery delivery slot anywhere?

It works for those who were already set up.

Most UK schools are underfunded technology-wise.

When is the last time you heard of a drive to attract programmers etc into teaching? I cannot recall one ever, yet Science, where there is still a huge gap, has been targeted in this way and iirc correctly more than once. Just like the drive for NHS and police staff.

The educational system is not set up at all in the UK for this in terms of cash injected to it, and it isn't properly taught. Other countries by the time they leave school many are already involved in the tech industry in some way, and that comes from what they learn in school. Here, many start Uni not knowing the basics, and never go beyond the basics because they don't know much about it unless they have an interest themselves in this area.

Many people are currently sitting at home reading this on equipment worth a grand, and that's the main use. Had they had more exposure during their education they could now be software developers or something and using that device to it's potential.

It's not the teacher's fault. This is down to the Government and not giving it any attention, despite many many requests to invest and encourage education in this field from an early age for all, for a very long time.

If I could have chosen between Tech and Science, bye Science. That I can learn easily online the basics needed at least. There is an obvious interest in that area by everyone, so many will self motivate more than learning about tech, and those who want to work in this field would lean more towards Science. Plus of course, the basics needed could also be taught from an early age. They should be both equally given the same amount of resources, investment etc and with the option of getting something more specific at GCSE level.

And it’s kids from the most deprived homes that are really missing out because their own parents aren’t able to teach them or pay tutors to.

So the alternative is zoom even though they have no internet and no,laptop ?

Oh good, another teacher-bashing thread where some posters are apparently having a bad experience with their child's school and have decided ALL TEACHERS ARE LAZY.

You know what? Just because YOU'RE not getting the work you want for your child, doesn't mean ALL teachers are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs.

It's insulting for anyone to suggest this.

Do you meet one rude shop assistant and go online to forcefully insist that all shop staff are rude? Do you have an appointment with one GP who is dismissive of what you say your symptoms are and go online to forcefully insist all GPs never listen properly?

No?

Then stop grouping us all together. Sorry your school is apparently rubbish at providing work right now, but take it up with them, rather than take it out on us.

Oh, and Very professional being told to “fuck off” for asking the question as to why online presentations are an impossibility 🙄 if I took that attitude with my clients I wouldn’t last long!

Er, unless you know that particular poster is staff at your child's school, you are not their "client". Another example of you grouping teachers together. Just because I shop at Tesco, does not make me the customer of all shops in the country. Just because I visit my GP, does not make me a patient of every GP in the country. Especially when it's online in an anonymous forum.

Yes, being told to fuck off isn't nice, but your determination to make everyone see how all us teachers are lazy, just based on your own experience, is insulting and infuriating.

Remember it's the safety of your own child that you should be protecting and should be calling schools out for actively encouraging unsafe practices, not blaming teachers for doing the best they can using inadequate equipment and software. Parents should be supporting teachers who are thinking about the welfare of some extremely vulnerable children.

One of THE hardest things about education is you get to see the other side. It's often those who work with children on a regular basis, who children disclose things to. There are also those you can see things aren't so good for them at home. It's extremely hard and many are facing this all day every day in the classroom. Remember those horror stories over the years, those children were and still are in someone's classroom. Those are just the ones you hear about. You don't hear about little Johnny having yet another 'accident' at home. You don't hear about the kids that are malnourished. You don't get to hear about children who have been sexually abused etc.

In the classroom, it's there all day every day in some cases. I have seen the hard hearts reduced to tears, I have been there myself.

We aren't trained in MH yet we take this on constantly, not only our own but that of students and colleagues. Meetings can be horrific because of this.

When at home they should be able to switch off for the day. This is impossible for many simply because of the normal workday load. Add in one child protection incident for example, and this can create a huge amount of additional work, remember someone has to liaise with all these professionals. Staff have sat in a hospital waiting for someone to show up from social services until gone 11pm, they have a care of duty to stay. They don't get paid overtime for this.

When they have to go to those child protection meetings, they still have work to do whilst in that meeting, and this can create additional work for them.

Now people really want those staff members to be forced to view inside that child's home? It's bad enough they already feel helpless knowing what they know, to begin with. Should anyone be exposed to the abuse that goes on in some homes? Some parents will forget the camera is there.

Not live lessons how many times?! Pre recorded bite size lessons then being available for questions for a few hours a day. That’s all. So doing what they would have done anyway but not for a full day.

Lots of words and “reasons” as to why this can’t possibly happen and it’s all too hard and how dreadful I am to question this interspersed with the posts saying that their schools are doing this and it’s fine. That’s my issue. That attitude. The opposite of can do. Everything is always must worse and more difficult for teachers than for anyone else,

Nice explainer here

Why can't kids just get on with learning from home without fancy technology? Home learning is a good life skill. Or better still why can't kids chill for a bit?

@MsTSwift
I think it is probably more difficult in state schools with the lack of access to technology. Perhaps a lot of staff don’t have access to a decent laptop/desktop at home to teach effectively on line?
Luckily I work in a school where all staff and students have a tablet. Yes, it takes more time to plan the lessons but ultimately we can deliver live lessons via teams. We have smaller classes and students who are used to using a range of technology for learning. The staff in my school are doing an incredible job with lots of positive comments from students and parents. A whole new curriculum has been designed for post GCSE and A level for next term.
I think there will always be people who don’t have a ‘can do’ attitude, but you do have to look at the constraints in the state sector that may make it more challenging: lack of access to online textbooks/remote learning apps due to lack of funding?
I hope you get a better response from your school so that your children are able to access learning. If not, why not ask on here for ways we can help your children in this difficult time.

Valencia that sounds brilliant I wish my girls were at your school.
(Love Valencia spent 3 weeks there last summer )

Singapore bans teachers using Zoom after hackers post obscene images on screens

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/singapore-bans-teachers-using-zoom-after-hackers-post-obscene-images-on-screens

So the safeguarding concerns are -

1. Zoom isn't "safe" - use Google classroom or Skype?

1. Teachers might see safeguarding incidents in pupil's home - What a bizarre way of looking at things, surely that is burying your head in the sand.

1. People haven't "consented" - ask them if they wish to?

1. Kids don't have laptops - most don't have smart phones use them?

1. Teachers don't like filming inside their homes - find a blank wall or even an empty classroom?

1. They might be recorded - that can happen at any point to anyone with phones in classrooms?

I
Personiy

Personally I think an hour a day of teacher contact for secondary school pupils could be very helpful. The barriers to that are not proportionate.

It is a little strange that many sectors have massively changed how they work in a month but some schools (not all) can't do fairly basic things.

Refurbished Chromebooks cost £100. Surely the school could afford that from savings running costs.

This is not a teacher bashing thread.

Tee hee! Of course not!

@MrsT if you think is really so simple to create, edit and upload something informative that you don't mind sharing. Go ahead. Even creating a 20-minute video is time-consuming btw.

I can hear the complaints start now from many parents about the quality of the video produced because it's not up to their usual standards of viewing. Or the teaching has to pause for a moment to gather their thoughts, and the complaints this will generate. Comments about how they are dressed etc. The occasional cough or even worse omg the teacher had a sip of water.

It's all well and good everyone telling people they should be doing X, Y and Z, whilst complaining about the quality of work they are not currently obliged to produce. It's easy for anyone to sit and pick holes into anything. Those who are helpful for example try and come up with actual workable solutions based on the whatever. In this case, the lack of infrastructure and equipment is a massive issue, yet endlessly people are somehow making this the teachers fault.

Do people realise that it's not the teachers who have any control over anything really? They aren't in any way responsible for children outside their own homes to learn anything new at the moment. They have been asked to work with families to keep children's minds active knowing some parents really won't do a thing with them outside of school. And tbph I now finally understand where educators are coming from reading this thread, people moaning because essentially they are thinking education is someone else's responsibility. As parents, it is our job to educate them, and education goes way beyond leaving school with some GCSE's. So why aren't YOU doing YOUR job? When does the time come that some parents finally step up and do their job? One of the many many reasons people leave education, apart from a lack of anything, is feeling fed up every year starting from scratch to do some parents jobs. Basic stuff that should have been taught at home, when will they step up and be a functioning parent?

I am really amazed at anyone who really has the balls to moan about other people not educating their children at the moment. In case you missed it, there is no formal education at the moment. It has all been cancelled. As a parent, it is your job to provide education some outsource to schools etc, others chose to home school. You don't hear those who home-school all the time complaining about the lack of online learning from the local school class teacher, so why are people moaning now?

I teach in quite a deprives area. The children were sent home on the last day with a pack of work (made up the week we knew about the closures) that required hours of work to generate. I am online every school day setting tasks that can be done in a variety of ways, some online/offline work. I am available to speak live/teach my children at various points in the day that are at set times and explained clearly every morning - this involves them seeing me, but I can only hear them in the virtual classroom due to safeguarding. They can also hear each other. Around 50% of my children access the online tasks/ video conferencing over the week and only 1 child so far has completed all of the work. This child has specific learning difficulties and their parent is particularly supportive. When I’m not planning, teaching or assessing work I’m not twiddling my thumbs. I’m making phone calls to the families in my class to check how they are doing, supporting colleagues, trying to get the hang of all the technical stuff I need to suddenly be able to do, staff meetings and looking after my own family (whilst making sure they can access the online support given by their school). I’m doing my best in a tremendously difficult situation.

@Canigooutyet
Great name btw
I didn’t realise all learning had been cancelled? I’m a teacher btw.