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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why are teachers not teaching live lessons online

914 replies

Shouldistayorshouldimove · 10/04/2020 20:25

This is not a teacher bashing thread.

Talking online with another mum in my son’s class today, both ourDCs are in p1 (Scotland). She is outraged that teachers next term will be posting work online rather than actually teaching using Zoom etc. Her argument is that universities are doing it so why aren’t teachers? And how is she supposed to work from home and educate her children?

Personally I don’t think teaching a bunch of 5 year olds a live lesson using Zoom is going to be all that effective and would probably require quite a lot of supervision anyway. AIBU to think that tasks posted online are quite sufficient given the circumstances? So as not to drip feed, I am also working from home with 2DCs.

OP posts:
Valenciaoranges · 11/04/2020 07:21

@MsTSwift
Another point to consider is that being in the private sector, our jobs are not guaranteed therefore it is absolutely in our best interests to provide the best learning experience we can. Small classes, 6 days at school plus all the other activities/duties foster very strong relationships with students so we all want to do our utmost for them at this very difficult time.
I am very lucky that I don’t have young children at home.

Normalmumandwife · 11/04/2020 07:26

In short because the unions have strongly advised against it. 5 year olds aren't the problem, but they are concerned about secondary-aged students copying the lessons, altering them digitally and putting them on the web, leaving the teacher open to all sorts.

How fucking ludicrous is this? So we are in the biggest national crisis since world war 2 and what the unions say takes precedence of education some kids at least in some format. I get it that using video conf isn't suitable for younger ones..

OMG ..unions really covering themselves in glory

On a positive note...where we live some teachers are in during the holidays providing care for key workings kids which I would never have imagined a year ago so all credit to them. I do understand that there were a militant strand that refused to as they are entitled to their holidays so was left to the same ones to cover all the 2 weeks.

Floatyboat · 11/04/2020 07:28

Marmalade - that sounds great, a possible model that others could replicate.

Otherrooms · 11/04/2020 07:28

Because not all children have a laptop to themselves.
For example, 3 children, different teachers/lessons all needing to be on at the same time.
Add to that parents working from home.
Some households share one computer, some have no computer at all.

canigooutyet · 11/04/2020 07:30

From using headsets it's not only the teachers who will be exposed but classmates. What is weird about not wanting a child to accidentally hear something they shouldn't? Nothing about burying heads in sands. Imagine you are witnessing that, trying to keep. everyone calm whilst calling the police, whilst patiently waiting for them to arrive at the child home? Or let's consider the possibility the teacher lives in an abusive household, would you want your child to witness that if things turn nasty during that life lesson? Abuse can and does happen everywhere. It shouldn't, but it's there.

Consent, a person says no, that's it. If you are going to deliver an educational system, everyone should have the same equal access. The UK is not set up for this.

It's not just as easy as buying a chrome book for everyone. It still doesn't come with a guarantee of a workable connection. And of course, schools didn't have a decent budget to begin with hence dated equipment if any. Although they are closed to the majority of students, schools still have ongoing running costs. Unlike some, they actually do need to have the lights switched on.

And if everyone is supposed to be avoiding going out, technically all schools should have closed properly weeks ago because of the new lockdown. How are they supposed to get into the school to use anything there should this happen? They cannot let themselves in. They aren't even contracted to work weekends, yet here they are open on weekends to provide support to other key workers. And they won't be getting paid overtime, they already workloads for free just like many other professions do.

Funny how social distancing for some is only an issue when it involves them going out.

Normalmumandwife · 11/04/2020 07:31

@Otherrooms

I know our school ARE doing it...they don't video conf all day but set certain sessions and use MS Teams. That way the issues you mention are not a problem. In addition, Teams works in computers, tablets and phones! And yes the kids are getting some education at least

Otherrooms · 11/04/2020 07:32

Refurbished Chromebooks cost £100. Surely the school could afford that from savings running costs.

Who pays for the WiFi?

Otherrooms · 11/04/2020 07:36

normalmumandwife

I know that it can be done. My DD is having online live college lectures each day.

I'm talking about children with no or limited access to a computer.
Many children at my school are trying to work off their phone and some have limited WiFi /data.

Floatyboat · 11/04/2020 07:38

Otherrooms - most kids find the data to watch YouTube. I'm sure most can find the data to learn. I don't think they should be forced to though.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 11/04/2020 07:41

Practically speaking - how are parents supposed to work at home and teach their own children if the links provided in the home school pack aren’t remotely interesting for the children?

Again, if you think your kids' teachers are going to sit in front of a webcam and just make videos that are more engaging and interesting than the readily available professional videos, then your expectations are really off.

It's clear that lots of people are expecting 6 hours a day of a teacher talking, so that they can sit their child in front of it and then be done for the day, like at school. That's not realistic, and it would be absolutely horrible for a child. Again, think about how long you would like to spend watching an amateur monologuing at a screen, with no visual effects or any of the other things that people use to make these videos watchable when they produce them normally.

Staypositivepeople · 11/04/2020 07:43

My dc gets lessons via zoom from his tutor.
It needs me to supervise to ensure he stays on task,the opportunity to play up / mess around/ not engage,are huge ...
A couple of times I’ve took my eye of the ball ,and he’s positioned the laptop opposite the dogs bed and vanished ,I’ve come in the room to find the tutor talking to the dog .
( my dc has asd and can’t manage eye contact at all on line ,so he aims the camara at something random while listening )

CleanHankie · 11/04/2020 07:43

Saving on running costs?!
What savings? Schools are majority not shut. They are closed but not shut. Running costs are the same as lighting, heating etc. still being used. Staff wages, IT support, communication packages, websites - all still being paid or paid for on a years contract.
I think the only savings being made are on a stationery order, hardly enough to cover tablets for all children! (Oh and the Sports Premium money that we never seem to be able to spend all of)

HarrySnotter · 11/04/2020 07:47

This is not a teacher bashing thread.

Oh come on. Unless you're brand new to this site (apologies if you are) you would know that the mere mention of teachers, on any thread, descends into just that.

SachaStark · 11/04/2020 07:48

I don’t understand posters objecting to safeguarding concerns from the teachers’ perspective, like we are all whinging on about something extremely rare and very easy to deal with.

I’ve worked in secondary schools for years. It’s a very frequent occurrence for students to simply use still photographs from, for example, the school website to create digitally-altered pornographic images using their teachers’ faces. Or to create fake social media accounts to then send lewd or abusive messages to other students “from the teacher”.

These incidents are not few and far between, I’m sorry to say. And they absolutely ARE a huge safeguarding concern for members of staff.

From my own current experience, I am actually teaching live lessons via Microsoft Teams to small classes of very diligent private school students, at the school where I am currently long-term supply. I am happy to do this because: it’s fairly easy to deliver these lessons to a class of 8 students who all have incredible amounts of tech and a tidy and quiet workspace at home, thanks to their wealthy and supportive parents; and I trust these particular students not to do the above to me.

If I were still working in state with large, unpredictable classes? No. I would personally not consent to put myself in the firing line (possibly quite literally) like that. You’re too vulnerable to abuse.

Other teachers who are not delivering either live or pre-recorded lessons have my full support. There are other ways of delivering work to students remotely during these awful times.

People criticising teachers for not wanting to teach using video, live or otherwise, do please read and consider my point above. It’s only one point, there are of course many other safeguarding issues to consider which have been otherwise detailed on this thread.

ArtisanPopcorn · 11/04/2020 07:52

I think a lot of the problem here is that the teachers posting here are from schools that are setting work and the parents are from schools that aren't.

On a normal Friday we get (yr 1) a home learning sheet for the weekend and 2 new reading books but we didn't even get this on the last day of school. I keep hearing on here how teachers are setting work, answering questions via email, marking work etc, but this is not what I've experienced at all.

RainMinusBow · 11/04/2020 07:53

Under normal circumstances I teach a class of 32 young children with no TA and a high proportion of SEN. I love my job but it's such hard work! Currently can't go in as now 33 weeks' pregnant.
My hope is that teachers will be more appreciated/respected when all of this is over and people will realise exactly how exhausting the job really is!!

canigooutyet · 11/04/2020 07:55

@Valenciaoranges
It happened around the time schools were essentially closed. It isn't only me who has said the same on this thread alone. It came about when exams were cancelled, straight from the Secretary for Education. It was also announced that basically schools would open to serve a new purpose to provide care for students in particular groups. Once the decision was taken to cancel all exams, essentially this means there is nothing new to teach. At most, it should be revision and absolutely not all day, and batshit schools should fuck off with their in full uniform or else bollocks, even worse when this comes from primary schools.

HeadTeachers in decent schools have acknowledged that at the moment is it about the needs of the children in terms of them feeling safe, looked after and properly fed considering the groups going there they will be bloody terrified just by being there.

I can understand how this puts private teachers in a difficult situation because they are being told from management to do these things because otherwise, they would have to give refunds. And well...

Please do triple check any policies and contracts you have sign to ensure you aren't breaking one of their rules, and get written clarification from management about the contradictions to protect your own arse. All teaching staff are being forced into very vulnerable positions they shouldn't be placed in. But yet here you all are, trying your best in a fucking horrible situation getting flack for doing nothing, from those doing nothing.

Stellamboscha · 11/04/2020 07:55

Know who is my classroom, and there are no parents in it.
In an online classroom who knows which adults are in the room with the child ' in the classroom' watching and listening to other pupils.
Could be a dodgy old grandad making notes of the other pupils' contributions -them easy to groom another child from that class using that info.
It is a huge safeguarding issue.
Zoom was intended for adult business meetings -definitely not suitable for school children.

eeyore228 · 11/04/2020 07:58

There are 3 of us who need our one computer. I love people who think they know best. Not everyone has a computer or broadband. Getting kids to sit down in a class can be challenging, let alone a virtual one. Why do so many people think everything is easy and they are such experts!

kellysmadhousewonder · 11/04/2020 08:00

My sister is in secondary and does a live thing with her class and teacher I think a lot of school across country have . But not first school. You just couldn't do it ! My son is 10 he has autism and adhd in his class (mainstream) is 3 other adhd boys plus it's a class of 26 boys and only 4 girls it's a nightmare day to day for the teacher and 2 teaching assistance. I couldn't imagine this class all doing a live class on computer for more than 5kminutes . You also have to take into account the rest of the family in the house if the mum is sat with the child are there other siblings been left alone , then distracting the Live class .

letmeinthroughyourwindow · 11/04/2020 08:07

What savings on running costs?

We're open through the holidays, subscribing to providers we've never used before and providing free lunches for every child that's still in school.

"It is a little strange that many sectors have massively changed how they work in a month but some schools (not all) can't do fairly basic things."

You don't thing it's a big change that we're still open in the holidays, extending opening hours?

I know lots of parents are finding home schooling hard, and I know that some schools have been more responsive than others. But we're in the middle of unprecedented global events. Every industry on earth is scrabbling to adapt. Teachers didn't close schools or cancel the curriculum, we're trying our best for our classes and our own families too. Teachers are dying, getting sick, losing loved ones, losing incomes as partners are let go or furloughed, struggling to home school too...and then opening mean-spirited threads like this.

If you are struggling to do 2-3 hours home schooling with your kids due to working from home, could you do an hour before work and an hour in the evening maybe?

It's shit for everyone. I don't see why some people have such a desperate need to blame everyone else in such desperate times.

fishfingerface · 11/04/2020 08:10

Nice teacher bashing thread.

  1. Videos can't replace most of what primary teachers do in school
  2. Unions have said no
  3. Safeguarding
  4. The curriculum has been cancelled
  5. Teachers are busy looking after keyworker children and keeping schools running including admin behind the scenes that non-teachers won't know about
  6. Lots of teachers don't have fast wifi or access to technology
  7. Lots of families don't have fast wifi or access to technology or they're sharing one device between all of them
  8. Coordinating an exact lesson time for umpteen families who are working from home and don't have the time, energy or resources to connect to the lesson is impossible
  9. Putting too much pressure on families creates disastrous mental health problems for the parents and their children
10. It's a global crisis, stop bashing teachers
Piggywaspushed · 11/04/2020 08:11

This ahs already been posted but got overlooked so am posting again. If Singapore , technophile country, thinks Zoom is dangerous and unnecessary then we should not be embracing it so readily:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/singapore-bans-teachers-using-zoom-after-hackers-post-obscene-images-on-screens

qweryuiop · 11/04/2020 08:12

There are fundamental misunderstandings about what a teacher does here.

A University lecture is one person talking for an hour, maybe taking the occasional question. Easy to put online. In most subjects, these happen for between 1 and 10 hours per week.

The guide for primary age children is that teacher talk should last for no more the child's age plus five, and even that should be interactive. Children should be talking to each other and teachers should be asking questions of children. Then, for the other 50ish minutes, the teacher will be looking at children's work as they do it, for "live feedback" to support and move them on. Children will not all be given the same work.

If I had a clue how to replicate this online, I would. Also somehow including the four children with no Internet access at home, the three children with five or more younger siblings, the three children who are very new to English and benefit from having a peer to translate, the children in school as they're vulnerable...