Why are teachers not teaching live lessons online

[Shouldistayorshouldimove]

This is not a teacher bashing thread.

Talking online with another mum in my son’s class today, both ourDCs are in p1 (Scotland). She is outraged that teachers next term will be posting work online rather than actually teaching using Zoom etc. Her argument is that universities are doing it so why aren’t teachers? And how is she supposed to work from home and educate her children?

Personally I don’t think teaching a bunch of 5 year olds a live lesson using Zoom is going to be all that effective and would probably require quite a lot of supervision anyway. AIBU to think that tasks posted online are quite sufficient given the circumstances? So as not to drip feed, I am also working from home with 2DCs.

And yet another school happily using Zoom despite many security issues. It was never designed with schools in mind and the extra security needed.

Its main target group is those who have online meetings, not for educational purposes. There are more secure platforms than this, and whoever, is implementing this isn't doing a good enough job.

The security issues have been ongoing for a long time.

I know BJ was pictured using it, which probably led to the increase of use, as people blindly downloaded and started to use it. However, they weren't using it for work, but still extremely stupid to allow the picture to be used never mind using it. Over the years as well as the recent issue with porn, people have added themselves into conversations, taken users completely out of the conversation, hijacked shared screens, users forced into calls they don't want to be in etc.

How any of that has gotten through so many schools and deemed acceptable is beyond me. I don't about you, but I don't want my children to be 'forced' to do anything, and even less so online.

It breaches so many policies set in place for schools and I would remind the leadership and the person in charge of Child safety (cannot think of the correct name) of this and report if necessary.

If you think I am overreacting, go and research it. Everything and more said negatively is correct.

Imagine your child is doing homework and up pops some hardcore porn, they aren't going to react quick enough to reduce the amount of exposure. Or they suddenly get added into a conversation by those in the sex industry, but you don't know as the screen hasn't changed and the child has a headset on.

We should be protecting them from this not encouraging it. If people are really this happy, then why not turn off all the parental controls? Think of it as Youtube, despite all the restrictions you put in place, something still gets used. That you can control more than you can zoom.

Yes, I mean it's quite a big ask, under normal circumstances do you not think it would take quite a bit of planning to establish an online school? It would certainly take longer than a few weeks! People do not have a clue!

A huge amount of teaching is bridging the gap between advantaged and disadvantaged children. A few months of zoom lessons would put the children who's parents are willing to sit and make them do it, the children who have the appropriate technology and the children who have a decent WiFi connection miles ahead of those who don't.

Universities aren’t teaching live because

1. Students want flexibility to watch the lectures at a convenient time, particularly if they have caring responsibilities or may be ill themselves and want to catch up at a later date
2. Systems are more likely to struggle if everyone is using them at the same time
3. Lecturers (like all of us) May have caring responsibilities and struggle to teach online live at very specific times with their own IT equipment.

The unions have advised this is inappropriate... you can not replicate a classroom online... we are doing the best we can.

Very professional being told to “fuck off” for asking the question as to why online presentations are an impossibility 🙄 if I took that attitude with my clients I wouldn’t last long!

Yet another thread goading teachers. Yawn. Teachers don’t take the bait.

It's Friday night during the holidays. I don't care about being professional right now. I'm not at work.

And if your children are at home learning absolutely nothing new, sorry but why? Education starts at home. The government could have fully closed schools down. Who knows things may come to this. Who can you blame then when your child learns nothing new?

I chat with my children, I know their interests, I know where they need or need require a bit of help. Can I do it myself? Not really even though I have worked in education for many years. However, I can set daft questions so they can then find out more etc. Because of the time saved from lack of school run, oh look let's watch a documentary today. They can more be involved with cooking and learn new recipes, including some odd combinations based on some peoples current food situation. Learn some new exercise together, which benefits everyone even more so because we aren't as active now. Soon will be needing clothes shops open as clothes get too tight otherwise.

Okay, it won't count towards the curriculum. And? It's all been suspended anyway. There effectively is no education on offer from schools at the moment. They are missing out on nothing at the moment because apart from batshit schools, no-one is learning anything new from the curriculum. No-one is going to fall behind. And of course, private schools are still going to find ways to teach, parents would want their cashback.

I really do wish parents were able to witness a school behind the scenes for a week and not an edited tv show. Many will be extremely shocked about how it is. You are seeing it from the rose-tinted version of your own school experience. That technology that was new 15 years ago, is still widely used. Many are still using videotapes and old TVs.

A class full of 30 students, a teacher and a couple of Ta's in some schools have a device between them all to share. And in some this also includes that device been used by more than one class.

The rest of the world knocks us out of the water in terms of tech. Not surprising when year 9's are still being taught the same basic crap they learned when they were in primary. We aren't providing an education to help spark that interest in an early age. And how can they? The simply aren't equipped, funded or experienced enough to do this. When is the last time you came across a programmer or similar teach in schools? There will be a few of course, but not that many. That alone speaks volumes.

People keep saying "safeguarding". What exactly is the safeguarding issue with teaching online? It can be all recorded so surely more safe than in person interactions.

That’s alright then. Not sure I have ever told anyone to “fuck off” particularly when discussing my job.

I used to respect teachers - my experience of the profession during this crisis has totally changed my view particularly in light of how other jobs and professions have stepped up. Good to hear others have had more positive experiences though and interesting post up thread about how Italy has nailed online teaching.

I used to respect teachers

I don’t think they will lose any sleep over this

So if I needed to do live teaching all day (instead of what I am doing, preparing and marking lessons for each class) I would need to send my dc to a school to be cared for by other teachers, with very low ratios obviously so more teachers would need to be on the rota to go in, so their regular classes would not have any teaching live or not...
This is a sensible solution is it?

@Floatyboat for starters they are using an unsafe platform called zoom which has a reputation of porn suddenly appearing and getting forced into conversations.

There are also various E-safety policies in place. Remember vaguely having to sign all those permission sheets? They are still in force. One of which includes parents giving consent for their child to go online. Another one includes what can be put 'online' for both student and teacher. If the teacher has family they also have the choice to not want their voice/image online, and of course the same applies to the students family. There is also a form that includes third parties, again students and staff can opt-out.

Those are just the issues I can remember from the top of my head. Teachers using this really need to read all those policies you signed. By using Zoom you are all in breach of your contracts, and we all know how quickly some in leadership can hang you out to dry to protect themselves, as can other colleagues. You lot really need to protect and cover your asses at the moment.

And parents, get on your schools' website. All this should be displayed for parents to access, especially when it comes down to basic consent.

High tech does not equal 'good education' in my mind. I am not that old -41 but I find that it is highly addictive and all consuming.

I have introduced my child to good quality films during this time, particularly ones that relate to novels, I want them to be able to challenge ideas a bit more than they do and explore different perspectives, in my mind a technocentric education is going to be the death of these kind of thought processes and correspondingly the death of the imagination, I think that is really very worrying!

How exactly have teachers not stepped up? We are still in schools. Still teaching the best we can from home given the circumstances. We are the only professionals that I see being criticised during a pandemic. We are also trying to do our jobs whilst supervising our own children yet people seem to forget this. I'm not criticising any one at this time such as dentists, doctors, vets etc who have closed but repeatedly see criticisms targeted at teachers who are trying their best. And before anyone says we are being paid still, perhaps some teachers who are struggling would like the opportunity to be furloughed instead as others have.

Basically, anything that they haven't managed to properly look into should not be used full stop.
Other countries have different laws and protection in place. Some do display publicly teachers home phone etc. Some don't mind images of their children going online, whereas others have restrictions in place to stop this.

Many of those things in place are there to protect the vulnerable, the students primarily. Children who have witnessed some horrific things already and just the idea of going online is way outside their own comfort zone. Never mind the thought about using a webcam. It's not a nice shiny glittery world out there, and it is our job to protect them as much as we can.

Blindly doing online lessons is a disaster without any basic knowledge of things like security and parental controls.

Oh, and a lot of people working from home at the moment have been told explicitly they are there to work, not provide childcare. Many, many parents working from home are in very, very sensitive fields and cannot be in hearing distance of other household members. This will reduce recording time even more, never mind trying to concentrate on planning, marking etc because they need to entertain the children to keep them away from that parent.

What exactly is the safeguarding issue with teaching online? It can be all recorded so surely more safe than in person interactions

1. It can be manipulated by the malicious and put out on the internet. For ever.
2. A number of platforms are unsafe in terms of hacking.

Yes furlough is sounding more appealing as time goes on. I wonder what the thread titles would be then though?

I used to respect teachers - my experience of the profession during this crisis has totally changed my view particularly in light of how other jobs and professions have stepped up

How have teachers not stepped up?

A lot of schools who have online downloads for young children have posted printed materials to children who normally qualify for FSM. Children who don’t qualify are expected to access materials online. But completing them isn’t mandatory because there is no way of getting the work back to the teacher. It all seems such a time wasting exercise. Honestly I think tech companies should give free limited / restricted 4G dongles and laptops to all schools so children can all access online materials.

The safeguarding thing is a good point. You don't know what people's home lives are like. Is it really a good idea to link up to less than happy home situations?
High school here is setting work online.
We're doing it as in work but there's no online classes as such. All work set by a homework app.

I used to respect teachers - my experience of the profession during this crisis has totally changed my view particularly in light of how other jobs and professions have stepped up

And who would these be? Vets and dentists have shut up shop. We still need these, so how have they stepped up?

How did companies who took the decision to close down completely before furlough step up? What about the owner who suggested his employers donate all their wages, many of who on minimum wage, how did he step up? How did Mumsnet introducing a poor subscription service step up? Those are just a few examples I can think of since CV.

Yet teachers who believe it or not work a lot more than 6 hours a day on a normal day aren't stepping up? How do you come to this conclusion when technically they don't have to do a damn thing? Education has been suspended. IE there is NOTHING NEW to learn. This hasn't come from teachers or Unions, this came directly from the person who was voted in. He if announces that the suspension on education is lifted, then and only then are teachers obliged to work providing they don't meet the stay at home criteria.

At the moment, technically they should be viewed in the same way as those who work in an industry that has been asked to close.

And ever thought maybe that teacher isn't in contact because they or someone close to them has CV, is in hospital, or unfortunately, died?

My child isn't aware that I have been in contact as much as I have with the school. For starters, unless I am in the room and the phone is on the loudspeaker, because of those pesky policies that are currently despised, it isn't allowed, it puts both in a very vulnerable position. And let's be honest, regardless of where in the world they are, there are some nasty, vindictive parents out there, and tbh if I was still in education like fuck am I going to call a parent unless I record the conversation. Meetings and emails are used for very serious reasons.

Not in the UK. Schools here are doing online learning, teachers are recording messages / teaching using an app and setting tasks to be completed with app. All children who need one have been given a tablet as well as access to a hot spot. Yes, I do have to supervise my youngest quite a bit, but it is possible to move to online learning for primary kids, it just takes a lot of coordinated effort.

It would take more than effort to conjure up tablets out of thin air, maybe MPs could pay for them with their extra 10000.
Many children - and parents - are using mobile phones to access online learning which really is not ideal for any length of time or anything hard to read.