To say... it's a fucking VIRUS

[ArtisanBreadBin]

The number of posts on here about how the NHS have recommended "antibac" no they haven't. I wipe it with "antibac" why would you. I can't find any "antibac" handwash, you don't fucking need it.

AIBU to hope that people can learn the difference between a fucking virus and a bacteria. If it was a bacteria it would be called CORONA fucking BACTERIA!!!!

In any case "antibac" is a waste of time and money, use soap and water. FML.

Thanks Guy. So surfactants are soaps?

@GuyFawkesDay so "many" is ok is it? What if "many" doesn't include Coronavirus? You happy to recommend that to everyone?

Well not exactly. Not all surfactants are soap, but all proper soaps are surfactants.

OP is correct in that we don't need to be buying expensive hand gels and sprays.

I wash shopping in hot, soapy water (Dr Bronner liquid castille soap)

I use a mixture of this and a drop of bleach on handles etc.

But if people want to spend ££ on Dettol then that's fine. I find their spray really handy in bathrooms. But it's expensive to use everywhere.

Do basic antibac sprays like Flash actually contain ethanol/iso-propranol like some posters have said?

I've only ever seen 'ionic surfactants' on the ingredients list - but it sounds as though that will do just as well because it's ... soap? Confused.

Not all "antibacs" kill viruses. But you're not allowed to point that out because "some" do, and that is enough

This is interesting about an Advertising Standards complaint

www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/anti-bacterial-products.html

At the end of 2006, the ASA upheld a complaint about an ad, for a handwash gel, that stated "KILLS 99.8% OF GERMS. NO GERMS. INSTANT HAND SANITISER." The ad featured two quotes from the Daily Mail that stated "£2.99 HANDWASH KILLS MRSA and BIRD FLU” and "On average, people touch their faces every five minutes." A further quote by Dr Charles Gerba of the University of Arizona stated "80% of disease causing illness is spread by Hand." The ASA ruled against the claim "Kills MRSA and Bird Flu": because it suggested that the product could be used to treat or prevent infections caused by MRSA or Bird Flu pathogens (which the advertiser could not evidence) and also was considered an unauthorised medicinal claim

In reaching its decision, the ASA took advice from the Borderline Section at the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA). Guidance from the MHRA stated that any direct claim or implication that a product can be used to treat or prevent an infection associated with specifically named pathogens would be considered medicinal. This particularly applies to micro-organisms, such as MRSA, E-coli and Salmonella, that are frequently brought to the attention of the general public by the media. Claims such as “Kills MRSA” or “Effective against MRSA” are likely to be considered medicinal claims to prevent or treat infections that are caused by the MRSA micro-organism and are therefore unacceptable under law and the CAP Code.

Claims to prevent or treat COVID-19 using a topical products like hand sanitiser may also be considered medicinal and marketers wishing to make claims in advertising for unlicensed products should check with the MHRA before doing so

've only ever seen 'ionic surfactants' on the ingredients list - but it sounds as though that will do just as well because it's ... soap? Confused

They contain surfactants

Which should do the job against most viruses.

And if only some antibac products are effective against viruses... how can we tell which ones?!

OP, watch your tone.

You are doing yourself no favours.

You have very valid points but the way you express yourself makes you sound angry, forthy at the mouth and it doesn't make people want to listen.

Calm down and try helping people understand I stead of castigating and shouting at them.

So where do beneficial bacteria fit into all this? Can they survive certain cleaning products and not others? Will the upsurge in cleaning cause problems with people's gut biomes? Or am I overthinking this?

@bingowingsmcgee you're absolutely right. We're killing everything Useful by using antibac

So where do beneficial bacteria fit into all this? Can they survive certain cleaning products and not others

We have those in our gut, and they feed off certain foods we eat. No need to worry about killing them off.Certain foods may promote healthy gut bacteria.

But we do need to be exposed to 'germs' to get a good immune system. *controversial

@GuyFawkesDay meh. I've tried that on other threads, no one listens because "antibac". This is AIBU, I came here to make a point.

Thanks artisan and cho

again "some". "Some" people think that all "antibac" products are effective. But they're not. So... you want to do a public service announcement?

If this was your issue you would have started a thread telling people to check their labels and ensure that their products are actually effective. But your rant on the uselessness of antiBACTERIAL products against a coronaVIRUS suggests you had no idea that some antibacs are indeed effective and you're guilty of spreading misinformation.

I can only assume it's PMT week to be starting a thread this aggressive.

The news, the experts, all recommend anti bac, maybe take it up with them

@VitreousHumour ask @chomalungma they seem to be hung up on this answer.

My view... you don't so use something else, like hot soapy water, or 60%+ alcohol gel as a stopgap. Not instead of hand washing.

And if only some antibac products are effective against viruses... how can we tell which ones

If it's a hand gel or wipe, then look for the alcohol content.

e.g. www.henleysmed.com/products/sani-cloth-70-alcohol-wipes

If it's a disinfectant, does it contain surfactants?

I've invested in some soap leaves.
Sheets of proper soap, in a little case.
One on hand, bit of water, wash it.

I'm finding it's easier to keep water in my boot and wash my hands after shopping than trying to gel/wipe etc.

I use alcohol wipes on trolley and keypad in supermarket. Then go back to car, and using the water just wash my hands.

It feels cleaner too. And dries my hands out less.

But.....a lot of people like the antibacterial products. I know they're not ideal but right now, people need comfort, they need to feel like they're doing everything and shouting at them don't help.

If I thought your questions were genuine rather than just trying to be goady, I would answer them.

They aren't relevant to your OP anyway. You were trying to exert your superiority because you know the difference between a virus and a bacterium and ended up looking stupid because you didn't realise that antibacterial sprays contain surfactants that can destroy coronavirus.

As for your advice to use soap and water, that's great for hands. Personally, I wonder whether people wiping their shopping with a cloth dipped in a weak solution of soapy water aren't just cross contaminating everything. A squirt of washing up liquid in a bowl of water is not the same as lathering your hands with soap.

@goingoverground glad you're happy for people to believe that all "antibac" wipes are effective against Coronavirus. Hope you're proud of your input into this.

Of course, this product would bug the OP

www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/305734673

Effective against Flu virus*
*H7N9 Strain
Sani Hands Anti-bacterial Plastic Free Hand Wipes kill 99.99% of bacteria and germs in seconds and keep hands protected for up to 6 hours. Unlike gels and foams, Sani Hands removes dirt, providing the most effective cleansing alternative to soap and water.
Clinically and dermatologically tested.
Leaves hands clean, moisturised and protected.
Gentle on the skin, suitable for sensitive skin.
Contains vitamin E and aloe vera.
Wipes contain no plastic fibres.

Plastic free
Up to 6 hours protection
Kills 99.99% of bacteria & germs in seconds
Dermatologically tested
Suitable for sensitive skin

Active Substance: Benzalkonium Chloride

And this links to a report on how long it lasts on surfaces

www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext

@GuyFawkesDay that sounds quite sensible.

I know people need reassurance but they don't need reassurance when they're doing the wrong thing. People need to understand that their "antibac" may not be effective! Why is that concept so unwelcome?

Are you sure on that? It's a Rhinovirus that is the most common cause of the common cold

Afaik there are 7 coronaviruses identified.

4 of these tend to only cause a coryza (common cold), about 20-30% of seasonal upper respiratory infections from these viruses (rest are due to e.g. rhinovirus, influenza virus etc).

The other three coronaviruses cause deeper (lung etc) infections, i.e. SARS, MERS, COVID-19.

I've wondered the same with shopping.

It's hard to know what to do for the best. I'm leaving cupboard stuff our for 2-3 days but fridge and freezer....well I'll admit to resorting to Dettol spray!

glad you're happy for people to believe that all "antibac" wipes are effective against Coronavirus. Hope you're proud of your input into this.

Keep digging