To say... it's a fucking VIRUS

[ArtisanBreadBin]

The number of posts on here about how the NHS have recommended "antibac" no they haven't. I wipe it with "antibac" why would you. I can't find any "antibac" handwash, you don't fucking need it.

AIBU to hope that people can learn the difference between a fucking virus and a bacteria. If it was a bacteria it would be called CORONA fucking BACTERIA!!!!

In any case "antibac" is a waste of time and money, use soap and water. FML.

glad you're happy for people to believe that all "antibac" wipes are effective against Coronavirus

Can you give an example of an antibac wipe that is not effective against Coronavirus?

How do you think most anti-bac wipes work?

I've been using hydrogen peroxide solution on hands today - am I wasting my time?

@chomalungma I can only conclude you are being deliberately obtuse or your comprehension skills are poor. At no point have I said no "antibac" kills Coronavirus.

Have a review of what you've said and what others have posted. The assumption that "antibac" will protect against Coronavirus is false. Some will, some won't. You are promoting them so... nice one. Why don't you post a statement saying "all antibac will kill Coronavirus" if you're that confident..?

I brought two bottles of 96 per cent alcohol back from Tenerife
Only cost about 60 cents
I’m making my own anti viral spray

I see you apppear to have disinfected your language op

@dowser I reckon that will be highly effective but very drying. Are you going to use it on your skin..? Or just surfaces? HTM publications suggest not spraying due to the potential aerosol, better to use it to make a wipe/cloth.

glad you're happy for people to believe that all "antibac" wipes are effective against Coronavirus. Hope you're proud of your input into this

Um where did I or anyone say that? I'm fairly sure anyone reading this thread, whether they studied biochemistry or not, has the information they need as to what type of products are effective and can check the label - surfactants. Or they could read the link I posted.

Perhaps you could post the correct dilution of soap to kill coronavirus so people can make their own sprays if you want to give people useful information rather than disinformation?

You are promoting them so

Read carefully what I have said. I haven't said that all anti bac will kill viruses.

But most will - especially if it says effective against bacteria and viruses

As will most disinfectants

patient.info/news-and-features/covid-19-do-you-need-to-disinfect-your-home

@OhTheRoses for the more sensible solutions. I can't believe people fucking pretending they know for a fact that something labelled fucking "antibac" is definitely, 100% effective against Coronavirus. Why would you pretend that is a fact. Baffles me.

I can't believe people fucking pretending they know for a fact that something labelled fucking "antibac" is definitely, 100% effective against Coronaviru

If you read carefully, then you will see that I have not said all anti-bac are effective against Coronavirus.

In fact, if you read my post at 2124, you will see what I wrote.

I think there will be an overlap in what products will be effective against, some things labelled antibacterial will destroy covid. Lots of people are probably just using 'antibac' as a shorthand.

I do think it would be better if they didn't though, just to promote general understanding it would be better to use a more general term. It's semantics but it is a bit misleading.

From one of the link

While stocking up on antibacterial wipes and cleaners may seem like the right thing to do, they won't actually protect you from coronavirus, or any other virus.

That's because bacteria and viruses are two different germs, therefore they are killed by different products.

But don't go throwing all your antibacterial cleaners away just yet, some may still be effective.

"Most antibacterial cleaners are also disinfectants, it's just that they've been specially marketed to emphasise their antibacterial properties," Bearman says.

"Viruses are more resistant to disinfectants but can still be killed with them. Coronavirus is an envelope virus, which means it is 'enveloped' in a fatty layer that can be more easily broken down by cleaning supplies."

Fozzard recommends checking the label to ensure the product has been tested against bacteria and viruses.

"Not all household cleaning products contain virus-killing active ingredients. Some antibacterial products may not be effective against viruses, so it's important to select a product that states 'Kills 99.9% bacteria and viruses' on the packaging," she says.

do think it would be better if they didn't though, just to promote general understanding it would be better to use a more general term

True.

Good grief calm down and get off your High horse.
Many of the anti bacterial sprays work on viruses.
For example Dettol antibacterial spray has shown effectiveness against corona virus strains.

Also alcohol products with more than 60% alcohol, so I have read, kill the virus.

even if the spray is ineffective, surely people wiping down Surfaces with clean cloths then drying thoroughly will remove some particles, thus potentially reducing the transmission.

From my limited knowledge, the best thing we can all do is thoroughly wash our hands, often.

But I’m certainly not going to look down on anyone for using ‘antibac’ it may be beneficial, and at worst a neutral action.

I've been using flash bleach anyway. I used to get on my high horse about people saying anti bac but I noticed the label changed.

It looks like a LOT of disinfectants kill coronavirus

cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/infectious-disease/How-we-know-disinfectants-should-kill-the-COVID-19-coronavirus/98/web/2020/03

Although there’s good evidence the novel coronavirus is one of the easiest types of viruses to kill, scientists are still determining its exact nature and how big a role surface transmission plays in its spread

Enveloped viruses like SARS-CoV-2—which rely on a protective lipid coating—are the easiest type to deactivate. In contrast with many gastrointestinal viruses like norovirus which have a tough protein shell called a capsid, viruses with this fatty wrapping are relatively vulnerable.

“It’s much more sensitive. It’s sort of a wimpy protective shell,” says virologist Seema Lakdawala of the University of Pittsburgh.

There are a few ways to burst this flimsy shell. Alcohol-based products disintegrate the protective lipids. Quaternary ammonium disinfectants, commonly used in health-care and food-service industries, attack protein and lipid structures, thwarting the pathogen’s typical mode of infection. Bleach and other potent oxidizers swiftly break down a virus’s essential components.

The EPA’s list of disinfectants presumed effective against SARS-CoV-2 contains several dozen antimicrobial products including ready-to-use sprays, concentrates, and wipes.

The EPA did have a rather long list of products that are effective.

I agree with OP - it has been very confusing and I don't understand why everyone's come down so hard on her.

Some labels mention effective against 99% of bacteria and 'germs' - does that mean viruses?! Germs is worryingly vague

I did some googling when it first looked bad and what seemed to be reputable sites were saying that Benzalkonium Chloride - the active ingredient in most products labelled 'antibacterial' - would stop Covid-19 multiplying but not kill it.

Also, in the States the word 'disinfectant' is a bit like a certification - a product which is certified by one of the health agencies as a disinfectant will deffo kill viruses. In the UK, the word disinfectant doesn't seem to have the same stringent standards around it.

In a panic I put all my antibac sprays/wipes in a plastic bag that says 'will not kill viruses' (in case my kids have to use them without me!) and I've been using bleach dilute.

Also discovered according to one resource that you need to make freshly diluted bleach every day as water de-activates it somewhat.

I would like help from the scientists on this thread with regard specifically to surface cleaning (not hand cleaning. I'm clued up on that).
The accepted answer on surface cleaning seems to be: clean first with water and soap/detergent. Then disinfect with a disinfectant. The preferred disinfectant seems to be a dilute solution of bleach. Fair enough. But I am interested in WHY people seem to think the other disinfectants e.g. Dettol or Zoflora are less effective (containing Benzalkonium Chloride or Chloroxylenol). There don't seem to be any recent comparative studies. Any recent articles seem to refer back to an article written in 1998 which I will give the link to below. This article seems weird because (a) it compared the effects of different disinfectants on a range of viruses but not each one on the same virus, so it says for example disinfectant (a) worked on virus (1) but then tested disinfectant (b) on virus (2) but not virus (1). Also, it found in the case of one common disinfectant that it worked more efficiently in a lower dilution which sounds odd.
I am not a scientist but I would like to know what the scientists on this thread think. Is this article sound? Why do so many recent articles refer back to it without questioning its conclusions? Article is at
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9602977

So how do you clean and wipe down surfaces OP if you are doing a big clean? Do you fill a bottle with hot soapy water to clean everything and then spray and wipe as normal? Do you constantly run a cloth under a tap to get a good lather up? How much soap is needed to be “ArtisanBreadBin-approved”? Do you use bar or liquid soap? And which liquid soap? I’m intrigued by your cleaning routine now.

I’m a lazy cow, so just being able to spray and wipe is important to me. I happily pay the premium to not have to fart around with making up soap solutions to Mumsnet Standard; it’s hard enough to summon the enthusiasm to clean as it is.

To come back on my earlier point - most, if not all, anti-bac sprays contain either disinfectant or surfuctants e.g. soap, so whether someone is using hand gel with a 60% alcohol content, anti-bac handwash which will have soap, or anti-bac spray with disinfectant or soap in it - all will kill viruses if used appropriately. Again, soap and water is as good as anything but anti-bac products are equally as good if used appropriately. Not sure what's so hard to understand.

the active ingredient in most products labelled 'antibacterial' - would stop Covid-19 multiplying but not kill it

Viruses multiply inside the host.

The active ingredient is a surfactant that breaks it down - so stopping it entering the host as it's been destroyed.

Another weird thing I discovered - 70% iso-propynol alcohol is appaz more effective than 90%.

I think some confusion might have crept in because antibiotics are not useful for viruses. We're always being reminded that antibiotics won't be prescribed for a virus and saying that an anti-bacterial spray won't kill a virus sounds like the same thing, but it isn't.

How to clean

From the EU

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/coronavirus-SARS-CoV-2-guidance-environmental-cleaning-non-healthcare-facilities.pdf

@Dyrne bowl of soapy water, cloth. Wash. Same way I'd wash myself in a shower. It's genuinely not magic. Also... I clean high touch areas like door handles and bathrooms. The rest of the time, hand washing is the key.

No secret science.