Would it be unreasonable of me not to 'clap for Boris' tonight?

[Otherrooms]

I've just seen this in my FB page.
A local group has shared it.
'Clap for Boris' (see pic) Tonight 8pm.
Human to human, I wish him well & a full recovery but I won't be clapping...

Oh please, what an utterly inappropriate and bizarre thing to say in view of the fact we are currently in the grip of a global, deathly, actual pandemic.

Pointing out policies that run down the NHS and leave healthcare professionals vulnerable - particuarly during a pandemic is a perfectly valid observation. Governments don't get a free pass during crisis, they are supposed to act up and protect the very people they are elcected to serve.

'but please get more offended by my terminology '

Thousands of deaths worldwide, people fighting for their lives in ICU yet you decide 'ignorance' is a pandemic in itself?!

Yes I will get more offended by your shit terminology and childish analogy thanks

Yes I will get more offended by your shit terminology and childish analogy thanks

Your welcome to do so, but it doesn't change the facts that people deliberately ignored the fact that as a country we were warned that our healthcare system was being destroyed and people still voted for the government doing it. Now those chickens are very much coming home to roost (hope that one doesn't offend you too much). Ignore those facts for some melodrama of your own creating to your heart's content.

To my certain knowledge there are at least some NHS clappers who voted Tory and continue to be pro-Johnson. For some, it's very optimistic to think they've sufficient awareness of what's been done to the NHS to see any disconnect, let alone feel guilt. Others have joined the dots privately, but will use all kinds of tactics to try and prevent anyone pointing out that the NHS real terms cuts the Tories oversaw for a decade led to unnecessary deaths pre covid and have left us in a weakened position now it's here.

I don't think they do or ever will acknowledge the correlation between how bad things are now and the fact it was caused by constantly voting in the Tories over the past few years

Indeed. And if there's any thinking by die-hard Tory voters about austerity, it'll be along the lines of "I worked hard. If others are suffering , they must be feckless" sort of thinking.

I can't help feeling some of those clapping for the NHS are doing so in the guilty knowledge that they were the ones who voted to underfund it and underpay NHS workers, and are clapping all the more loudly for fear their chickens will come home to roost the day they need it.

Totally agree with your whole post @PerkingFaintly But I seriously doubt that Mr Johnson will actually learn something from his experience.

For a classicist, he sure is ignorant of the concept of hubris.

No one clapped where I live.

Heard no clapping here. We usually have quite loud clapping for key workers.

A lot of traditional Labour voters voted for the Tories at the last election. Not just over Brexit but because many were appalled by Jeremy Corbyn. It was quite moving listening to them talk in interviews about how difficult it was but how they felt they had no choice. For so long the Tories have been able to get away with a lot because they was no feasible opposition leader or party. Sorry, but many Corbyn supporters need to look at themselves as being a factor in why things played out the way they did. You have to offer a credible opposition.

Even if you believe there is no credible opposition you don't simply vote for more economic and social pain. You are asking for trouble. That trouble has arrived in the form of a pandemic and a government that serve up only slogans cannot hack it.

It’s nice to see how #bekind has really stuck.

One can be anti Tory and not have voted Labour.

Indeed, the main swing in the 2019 election was actually from Labour to other left of centre parties. The Conservatives only got a slightly higher percentage of the vote and number of votes cast in 2019 than in 2017. They gained 1.2% and just under 400,000. Labour lost nearly 9%: clearly most of this couldn't have gone Tory unless the Tories bled a huge number of votes from 2017 to left of centre parties.

The reason for their large gain in seats was that the electoral system disproportionately rewarded them for that small vote increase because of where some of those votes were cast. That's first past the post.

But regardless, if people voted Conservative they chose a party who had presided for a decade over lower NHS funding in real terms. They'd had 10 years to fix the problems that started towards the end of the 00s and they didn't do it. This is what those voting Conservative lent support to.

'Now those chickens are very much coming home to roost (hope that one doesn't offend you too much)'

No not at all why would it, you aren't likening a grim pandemic to your definition of 'ignorance'. Although how a brand new virus devastating the world is chickens coming home to roost I've no idea.

I will clap if he increases pay for NHS workers.
I will clap if he allows nursing and medical students to study for free.

But regardless, if people voted Conservative they chose a party who had presided for a decade over lower NHS funding in real terms. They'd had 10 years to fix the problems that started towards the end of the 00s and they didn't do it. This is what those voting Conservative lent support to

This.

And a lot of people are a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.

I had no time for Corbyn as Leader of the Opposition, but I also see what a decade of Tory-led austerity has done to this amazing & wonderful country & its people.

Not voting Tory was a no-brainer at the last election.

And Mr Johnson like to try to ally himself with Churchill in the popular imagination. My grandfather was a pretty close colleague of Churchill's and I can tell you, Johnson can't hold a candle to Churchill.

He failed the leadership test before he became ill, and he continues to fail by not having made a clear strategy.

Although how a brand new virus devastating the world is chickens coming home to roost I've no idea.

It's the unnecessarily and deliberately weakened NHS that's being likened to homeward bound roosting chickens in that analogy.

Although how a brand new virus devastating the world is chickens coming home to roost I've no idea.

This is exactly what I mean by willful ignorance. It's not about the current pandemic, it's about the choices this country made to continuously vote in a government that made it their mission to undo, underfund and understaff the NHS (and all other public sectors), leading to a bigger catastrophe than it needed to be.

This pandemic was inevitable, but the choices made over the last 10 years has meant that it's so much worse than it could have been. Now the same people who voted for this government are trying their hardest to excuse it every possible way.

The NHS is going to suffer, as a concept it may not survive this. It's staff are in serious physical danger because of the choices the Tory government have made, and are still making despite people getting to the point of begging for help. It's ok though, because those who happily voted for a Tory government have heard a few of their friends and family say they're absolutely fine, so a clap on the doorstep every Thursday will make everything a-ok.

Completely correct mouthbreathing except it's the electoral system as much as the country. We could of course change it and we haven't, and people don't necessarily vote the same way in a different electoral system. Nonetheless it's worth pointing out that left of centre parties won a clear plurality of votes in all four of the elections since the left were last in power. And in many more besides that, actually.

'This pandemic was inevitable, but the choices made over the last 10 years has meant that it's so much worse than it could have been. '

Right, course it was. You seriously think the NHS capacity should have been massively increased to prepare for your 'inevitable' pandemic?!

Anyway. As I've said repeatedly critical care is reported to be managing this unforeseen emergency. Thank God Corbyn wasn't in charge scratching his head.

Right, course it was. You seriously think the NHS capacity should have been massively increased to prepare for your 'inevitable' pandemic?!

Why are you assuming she meant an increase rather than simply not cutting funding in real terms?

As for critical care reportedly managing now, that's great but we very clearly have a way to go with this and naturally people are concerned about that not continuing to be the case. Should critical care be overwhelmed, people are likely going to left to die who wouldn't have to be if we had more ICU beds per head of the population than we do. The Tories could have addressed that in the last decade, and haven't. Although no doubt all you'll have to say about that if it happens is waaaah Corbyn. But don't worry, we'll see you.

You seriously think the NHS capacity should have been massively increased to prepare for your 'inevitable' pandemic?!

No, I think the NHS should have been funded properly so it wasnt already functioning below par before this pandemic happened. I think that when it did happen, it shouldn't be taking weeks to sort out testing and PPE. You are again ignoring how previous issues caused by the Tory government is having a knock on effect on how this pandemic is being handled and how many extra lives it's taking.

Thank God Corbyn wasn't in charge scratching his head.

And here we come back around in a circle to this statement. You have no idea how Corbyn would have handled it, it's not even a discussion as how he would have. We are focusing on how the government in charge are doing, and the answer is bloody awful.

I'm glad Corbyn isn't in charge either, not because I've fallen for all the negative bull about him (some is correct, some is awful made up propaganda), but he could do no right. If he had locked us down asap, he would have 'overreacted', too late and he was the idiot who caused more people to die than necessary. If he got ill, people would have been far nastier than they have been about Johnson. The rightwing media would have a field day with every small decision he made, or even how he dressed in every press conference. They would have carried on behaving like he was going to come into your house at night, personally infect your grandma then kick your puppy on the way out. He would be personally blamed for the previous issues in the NHS, even though they were caused by years of Tory government. No one has time for more excessive vitriol against Corbyn on top of everything else.

I didn’t clap for Boris - I don’t wish him ill (in either sense), but my sympathy is reserved for the NHS staff, carers, and frontline workers.

Right, course it was. You seriously think the NHS capacity should have been massively increased to prepare for your 'inevitable' pandemic?!

errr...

www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2020/03/government-documents-show-no-planning-ventilators-event-pandemic

It's almost like bots can't physically clap.

its bollocks that loads of labour traditional voters went other to torys, they just didn't vote at all. And now even BJ believes it and is doing some cringeworthy attempts to woo what he and tory voters seem to think are a demographic entirely made up of ex miners. Now that Brexit is gone, so has their chance.