WWYD? Grandad’s war record

[TrickyGrandad]

As a part of my son’s work sent home from school, there’s an investigation project into relatives experience of war, rationing, evacuation, service, that sort of thing.

WWYD if you knew that Grandad’s war record was highly controversial? My child never met this Grandad but knows where he fits in the family tree, obviously.

Would you use this as a learning experience OR keep it under wraps for when they’re older. Safe to say this isn’t an aspect of war that school are exploring.

@TrickyGrandad social and behavioural science is fascinating, I am obviously not saying what he did was right, or that I support it or anything; but it's quite scary how people who are morally decent find themselves in such dispicable situations willingly. Not exactly the same, but the Zimbardo experiment demonstrates this on a very basic level. Again, not saying I support it or anything like that, but there's a lot to it, that hopefully we have learnt from.

I would tell him. I actually think its important that we remember that these people were normal people. Not monsters that came from the forest. They were peoples sons and fathers . I'm not saying to take pride in it.

@Justanotherlurker it's a whole range tbh. Some are, like you say, from supposedly educated parents others just haven't got a clue. I have taught children who know nothing about 9/11. Their parents just don't talk to them. Children are also not encouraged to empathise. Every Holocaust Memorial Day I come away from school feeling disappointed and sad

@Marieo I totally agree, it fascinates me too. That normal people turned against their neighbours and friends just like that. Have you watched alone in Berlin? Fantastic heart breaking film. We do similar things alot though. Choose a demographic, Jews, women, Mexicans, Muslims, and tell everyone else "it's their fault your life is shit" and people believe it, not really, but they'd rather believe that than the truth.

Gosh you must have been really old when you had your son. I had children in my 40s and my parents were children during WWII

As a secondary school teacher of history I would say do not say anything about this relative yet.

My question would be what is to be gained by your Year 6 child finding all of this stuff out now? When they are older, say 14 or 15, it would be good to discuss and explore this issue but before that - just no.

It IS history and should not be ignored but only at an age appropriate time.

That is a massive thing to learn about at age 10 or 11 and with a family connection I just think leave alone for a bit longer.

@Clymene. OP has already stated that it’s her son’s Great-Grandfather.

It seems it's still difficult for the grandchildren to process, so imagine how it would impact a 10 year old.

Yes I agree about not demonising the people who made these choices. From the records we found, when he was interrogated, he said his career was in the doldrums, and the local branch of the National Socialists promised him progression.

I would say that's entirely different! the Easter Rising lead to the emancipation of Eire and the creation of the Free State. Most people would consider a relative who took part in that as a hero.
But only because the Irish won their freedom.

If they hadn't then history would portray them as lawless rebels.

History is written by the winners, but each side believes they are right at the time.

(FWIW I'm on the side of the Irish here, I'm just pointing out how easily the other side can be shown as the "baddies", not that the Nazis - certainly as an organisation, if not always as the individual German on the street - as mis-maligned mind you.)

I definitely wouldn’t reveal that

How can an 11 y/o have a grandad that old?????

Ooops just RTFT

OP. You have said that the children are studying rationing, evacuation, etc.
Not the Nazis. So just don't tell him. As a pp said you could open a huge can of worms and leave your child in an prime position for bullies. Don't you have any other relatives who might have a story about the war? If not put a message on Facebook, tell the teacher you do not have a family connection but 'Fred' from down the road told you about this. Obviously any conversation needs to go via message and you need to supervise.

Oh right. I just read the title and the first few posts. Perhaps the OP should ask for the title to be changed, given it's utterly ludicrous for a grandad of a year 6 child to have been a senior nazi officer.

MN are really good at changing titles when asked. I'm surprised the OP hasn't done that already.

Or you could bother read the thread before blessing us all with your thoughts?

I'm surprised you haven't done that already.

I wouldn't.

Plus the teacher may not have thought this through and this might be the last thing she wants.

DS class were asked to do a presentation on some aspect of WWI for Remembrance Day. DS wrote about his great great grandfather who was decorated for bravery. He took in a photo of his medals (which are on display in a museum) and athe photograph of him which appeared in the newspapers at the time.

The teacher wasn't happy because she felt DS was "glorifying war"

The narrative she was teaching was that young men joined up thinking it would all be over by Christmas, whereas gt gt grandfather was a career soldier (serving in India at the outbreak of WWI) and that most soldiers were cannon fodder - gt gt grandfather survived unscathed.

If the school work refers to ration cards etc, the teacher does not want to hear about Nazi great grandfathers.

But it's the OP's Grandad who is the subject. I get the impression that this project has opened up a can of worms for the adults.

it is difficult and people can find it quite hard to find out their ancestors were on the "wrong" side historically
There was a ancestry programme several years ago when someone found out that instead of his African ancestors being slaves his ancestors were part of the group that actively chose to sell people to the slave traders it is was quite well documuneted the person was devasted the programme has never been on repeat but I forget who it was and anyway it is probably best not to say even
Just as not every German was conscripted, this echoes in other crises elsewhere peoples ancestors maybe related to Lenin , Pol Pot been members of KluKlux klan or some other group most peoples ancestors are a mixture some virtuous like Elizabeth Fry some criminals of varying degrees, some highly involved in eugenics
Don't lie to your son but don't over burden him with too much information too young

my Father was in WWII he is 96 my DD is 10 while it is not usual it is quite possible for a 10 year old to have a grandparent that remembers the war even if not old enough to be in the forces, anyone actually involved in WWII is at least 92 but anyone who was 5-6 at end of war would remember wee bits and pieces is now 75 or older having a grandparent in their late seventies is really not unusual maybe laving one in their late nineties is

It’s his great grandfather as that was the nearest generation which actually experienced the war. That said, maybe we are weird in our family as we refer to grandparents by their names, rather than Great Granny this or that. They are all just grandparents.

I don't read threads when they start with ludicrous propositions @Cohle.
I'm surprised you do!

Everyone likes to think they would be on the right side of history. I think it would be interesting for them to discuss another side. Maybe your son knows best what he would be comfortable sharing.

I think you have hit the predicament of the great grandfather on the head OP. In his country, people were starving. He took a way out. My DHs aunt married a Polish ww2 airman. He “took a way out”, escaped from stricken Poland, and joined the winning side! People make choices. Some don’t make the right ones.

I don't read threads when they start with ludicrous propositions @Cohle. I'm surprised you do!

And that's fair enough. But why do you think everyone else should read your contributions when you can't even be bothered to read the thread? Did you really think that over two hundred posts in, you were the first person this had occurred to?

Sigh - for those who say it's ludicrous for a child to have a grandparents who fought in WW2 both me and @TeacupDrama have explained that it's not.

My DF, if he were still alive, would be 96. He was 46 when I was born, I was 36 when DC3 was born who is now 13. It's unusual but not impossible.

For those who want to define anyone who wore a Nazi uniform as being a hideous monster - that's also completely unrealistic and wrong. People who fought for the Germans would have been ordinary people who had no choice about joining up or who though it was a good idea - just as soldiers on the other side did. Both sides were subject to propaganda.