WWYD? Grandad’s war record

[TrickyGrandad]

As a part of my son’s work sent home from school, there’s an investigation project into relatives experience of war, rationing, evacuation, service, that sort of thing.

WWYD if you knew that Grandad’s war record was highly controversial? My child never met this Grandad but knows where he fits in the family tree, obviously.

Would you use this as a learning experience OR keep it under wraps for when they’re older. Safe to say this isn’t an aspect of war that school are exploring.

He wasn't German though, but maybe you could take about the country he came from, and how it changed when the Germans occupied it?

Interesting discussion but we have very black and white views about WW2 with the benefit of hindsight.

Lots of people would have been called up to join the German army if they were the right age and most would have felt they were doing their duty just as the Allies did. The Nazis were popular with many Germans as they'd improved the economy and they were seen as a bulwark against Communism. I don't think this is particularly controversial and I wouldn't have a problem discussing it with a year 6 child. After all, for there to be a war there needs to be two sides. The Allies did some things which were pretty reprehensible (firebombing of Dresden springs to mind) but are always seen as the good guys with no questions asked. War is a messy business and the victors write history but behind that there are millions of complex individual stories.

I say that as someone who's DF fought for the Allies in WW2 and whose DM was an evacuee. I have a child in Yr 8. It is possible to be a child in 2020 and have grandparents involved in WW2 if both your grandparents and parents have children relatively late.

OP you might feel that this is too complicated a story for your child to take to school but I wouldn't feel ashamed of it in any way. We're not responsible for other people's actions and your Grandad no doubt felt he was doing the right thing at the time just as many of his peers would have done.

Wait till he's older for this particular skeleton.

I'd wait until he's an adult. He might be ok with it now after an in-depth conversation, but if he shares this with his classmates then they might use it as ammunition for bullying. Kids can be mean and it's a big topic for him to have to defend himself against.

DGM lived in London during the blitz, horrendous time, surely some other family member has stories to tell.
DGM on the other side was a nurse.
Land army, fire person?

DGGm that is.

You said this is actually a great grandparent - so why not just mention the actual grandparent. Ie s/he grew up in Germany but was too young to be in the forces. You can even mention that they were in Hitler Youth (it was mandatory)
Then mention the other 3 grandparents as well

I would have thought a lot of his class would be in the situation where the grandparents weren't that old so there will be plenty along the lines of they were evacuated etc

I had a similar family history surprise when he were doing the troubles during GCSES. I hadn’t been told anything, other than my father family came from Ireland. I don’t think it was intentionally hidden, just it wasn’t discussed.

My relative was heavily involved in the Easter rising and shot by the English.

I found out in a history lesson, where this persons name was the same as my fathers and I was rather shocked looking at the few photographs at the time as to how similar he looked to male relatives.

I wasn’t traumatized or anything. More curious, as were the class. No one said anything unkind etc

My relative was heavily involved in the Easter rising and shot by the English.

I found out in a history lesson, where this persons name was the same as my fathers and I was rather shocked looking at the few photographs at the time as to how similar he looked to male relatives.

I would say that's entirely different! the Easter Rising lead to the emancipation of Eire and the creation of the Free State. Most people would consider a relative who took part in that as a hero.
No-one's going to be proud of a Nazi parent who fought for Hitler and played a part in the murder of 6 millions Jews, not to mention the other minorities and LGBT people killed in camps too.

Can't see any shame about being involved in the Easter Rising.

I'd not tell my child that their relative was a Nazi Officer, until they were adult.

My dd has a girl in her class who was half German. I believe her grandad wrote a letter about behind a boy then. I imagine that was interesting as obviously the children got to see the human side of the other side. Don't think I'd mention it in your circumstances though.

I think they are a bit young to comprehend the plethora of factors that came into play in the war rather than just Nazis = bad and chose to do what they did, so I wouldn't at this point, no.

I agree with pp. It is his history but he's too young now to process it. I'd wait until he's older and just steer him towards other relatives even just by saying you don't know enough about that GGdads side to use.

Depending on his class size there could well be children with parents who did horrific things to innocent people in the name of war but it isn't the age for the discussion.

I think it’s a valuable experience when approached in the right light. We all have dishonourable ancestors, that doesn’t make us bad people. I’d put it in that he was in the German army briefly (at that age they don’t need details).

Such a range of views are fascinating. And the differing levels of understanding too.

He wasn’t in the German Army. He left his own nation’s army and joined the Nazis, because, we believe, they persuaded him that he would be joining the winning side. His wife did the same. There really is no excusing it, nor should there be. I find it fascinating though that beforehand, and afterwards, they led remarkably ordinary lives. Their actions blighted the lives of their children though and the shadow it throws even now concerns us.

Quite a few high ranking Nazis were members of various resistance groups - don't suppose he might have been one?

Re the school project, yes we can steer towards the much more usual stuff that other relatives did. I feel strongly though that my son must know everything, eventually. This thread has made me quite emotional. He is so beautiful, and I look at him and think bloody hell, you’re a quarter purebred aryan! It’s bizarre! Another grandparent was from another race entirely so he doesn’t look like anything Nazis might be interested in now!

Steamfan no. Nope. He worked in an interment camp and his wife and kids lived in relative luxury next door whilst the rest of his nation literally starved.

Their actions blighted the lives of their children though and the shadow it throws even now concerns us.

How much has your DS asked about them? You could let him lead the questioning here, not for a school project, but just because it's part of your family history.

He should still have 6 other great grandparents that he could write about? Even what seem like fairly mundane things can make an interesting story.

Loads of really interesting and thought provoking posts here.

One thing I would like to add is that however you decide to handle this, please do not lie to your son, even as a kindness to spare him hurt now.

I am adopted and my Mum told me all sorts of stories about why my birth mother couldn't keep me. She meant it as a kindness but when I found out as an adult that it was all lies I was so hurt and am still trying to process it years later.

I would definitely keep that quiet until he leaves school. From experience kids even at high school are very very immature about the holocaust and Nazi regime. There could be a lot of name calling etc if he lets slip

Keep quiet unless he asks, and then tell him it's not for public consumption. If spoken about it outside, he might find for example that someone lost nearly all their family in the Holocaust and that would be hard for both to process.

I wouldn't say anything at this age when children are too young to understand fully what happened etc not to mention potential teasing of DC. Defo keep under wraps or you could approach the teacher and ask for there input/if they could use any information to help teach the subject.
I'd find it fascinating but I am a historian 😂

From experience kids even at high school are very very immature about the holocaust and Nazi regime.

Those kids are usually from parents who pretend they are 'educated' and apparently politically aware and have been spending the last 10 years saying the UK is comparable to the 1930's and calling everyone racist.

It's how racists usually raise racists, the 'educated' labour voter raise the same

I agree its too complicated for his age range and would focus on easier histories.

However its worth talking about as a family as part of your history. I find it odd here how people are trying to say all people were forced into it or maybe he was resistance. The nazis and any group like that involves ordinary people, with ordinary lives. Its a side of humanity we dont like to talk about but its everywhere look at things like vietnam etc even to things like some off the selfishness thats come out of covid. Its full of people on the wrong side of history. Sometimes ordinary and good people do awful things and its important that we aknowledge that.

If we talk about groups like the nazis as evil horrible people then it makes us feel safer than to aknowledge they were mostly just regular people caught up in something atrocious. I think its a good lesson for us all, that just because we are "good" people doesnt mean we are immune to these things, and to discuss the reasons why we might lose our sense of morality.