to consider dd being a 'latch-key kid' at the age of 7?

[Rhubarb]

Here is the problem.

dd finishes school at 3.35, same time as I finish work. I have to pick up ds and get back here, latest I arrive here is 4.30, but it's usually more like 4.15.

At the moment we are paying £10 per session for dd to attend after school club including her tea.

She has her tea at 4pm, which I feel is too early. She misses out on her meal with the rest of us. The £10 is a flat rate until 6pm but obviously she doesn't stay until then.

I feel ripped off paying £10 for my dd to be looked after for 45mins, especially if I tell them not to feed her as I want her to eat with us.

The days I am stuck for care for dd are Mondays and Tuesdays, the other days are taken care of with after school activities, which run until 4.30pm and are free.

We are considering, just considering, the possibility of giving her a key. Opinions?

4mum the school themselves have said they are fine with rhubarb's dd walking home alone - she lives very close to the school in a quiet cul de sac.

Rhubarb has said further down the thread that she is now not considering this option.

what does the dc want to do?

She feels atm that she's a nuisance. She is nervous about letting herself in and staying at home alone, so we're not going to force her. But neither does she want to be ferried around to other parent's houses. I think she'd prefer it if I were there to pick her up every day, but alas that cannot happen.

Tigermoth - I'd have had words! But then I am quite a confrontational person at times.

I've found it so interesting reading all the different suggestions and different points of view. I'm sure Rhubarb never thought she'd be responsible for such a lively debate! I should clarify again that I don't live in the UK but I'm amazed that you only have to pay £10 for an afternoon's after-school care. That's so cheap compared to here. My daugther, also 7, goes to after school which is available from 2.40 to 5.30 each day. She doesn't go on Friday as she's at music and she's collected early on Wednesday for tennis but I have to pay the full amount for the week which I think is reasonable whether she's there or not. They have a certain number of places and there's a waiting list. Most parents need the place from the time the child finishes school so whether your particular child needs the place for 1 hour each day or until it closes is irrelevant, s/he is taking up a place. I'm a single Mum with no family close by and my ex husband lives overseas so it falls solely to me to fit in a full-time pretty demanding job and looking after my daughter. It would never enter my head to ask another Mum to take my child on any kind of a regular basis so I found it really interesting that there were several suggestions of that nature. I just think she's my child and she's my responsibility so I must sort it out. Anyway, I hope Rhubarb can find a solution that suits all involved. Good luck Rhubarb.

poor kid... rhubarb, it's a hard one.

i think i would try to let her come home on her own with a key. i would ease her into it where i walked her home a couple of times, then just on mondays (taking time off work for this is hard but might pay off in her confidence later), then on her own.

you are coming home at the same time really, just that she's getting there earlier.

if you have a mobile you can ring home, if your running late (it happens), or she could ring you.

i would find it hard to do, but if it's the only way (and finding the money is difficult), then that's what i would do.

NB my hubby is a house-husband and takes the kids to school everyday. he also, usually comes back with more kids than just ours and parents pick up from our house.

i'm hoping that the eldest (now 7) when she's in last year of school will be able to walk home on her own, but well see.

sorry - we'll see.

that damned apostophe!

to be perfectly honest i cant believe you would even consider giving a seven year old child their own key. the thought of a seven year old child at home alone sends shivers down my spine. sorry to be frank.

Who's Frank? Would he help?

Had a word with the nursery. They said they didn't even want me to forgo the meal for dd, as what would she do whilst everyone is eating? (They eat at 4pm, I usually get there at 4.15pm.) I said perhaps I could give dd a snack, say an apple. Oh no they said, then the other children would want an apple too.

I queried the price and asked if, since they charge the daytime price of £3.60ph, if dd couldn't be charged at this rate since she's only there for an hour (or less). She said no, because it's £10 a session and that's that. But I made her feel guilty as she's seen me coming for dd at 4.30pm or before most nights and I explained the full problem to her. She's going to have a word with her dh and let me know.

I also queried the wrong bill, which she says is not wrong. I can't even explain here what she's done because it's far too complicated and you are left wondering whether it's right or not and whether perhaps she's number dyslexic or me? My brain goes fuzzy. I told dh to sort it out but even he was stumped by her calculations. That's how she rips people I'm sure of it.

We'll see what she says. I'm a loyal customer however, ds went there a whole year and the only reason he can't go to the local nursery is because they won't be flexible about his sessions. The local nursery only does morning sessions, but this one says that the nursery morning session ends before theirs does, so they could pick ds up afterwards and keep him for the afternoon but they'd have to charge me for the full day. Told you they were money grabbing.

Their eldest dd babysits for us at £4ph, we only live across the road from them and we bought them a bottle of wine at Christmas. We've been bloody good customers and neighbours so I damn well hope they keep that in mind.

We'll wait and see..............

hope you get something sorted are you not entitled to tax credits? they usually pay upto 70% of your childcare costs (i think, not 100% sure but they do pay more than half)are there not any single moms? they are usually happy to help if you offer to return the favour maybe on a weekend or evening so they can have time alone! also if your daughter doesnt like the idea of going to other ppls houses perhaps they could take her to yours?

Sounds tough, but I don't think you really have much choice. Children need continuity I think, and having a range of childcare over the week would probably be very unsettling. I think you have to pay the money and swear a lot for a few years yet. Or move house. At my children's school they aren't allowed to go home on their own until they are 10, which I think is a bit steep, but watching how silly my son can be at eight, I wouldn't feel happy about letting him go home on his own, and 45 mins would be too long to be on his own (I do leave him for short amounts of time, and let him pop home when we are in the park (we live less than 5 mins away, with no roads). With dd who is 7 I wouldn't even think about it, because she would hate it, even though she is more sensible, and would be unlikely to do anything silly. I came home on my own from 8ish, but there was always someone there (usually a older sibling). I can't remember feeling bothered about it, but I did get run over, and soemone tried to assault me (granted I was a few years older by then).

Your nursery is so money grabbing, Rhubarb!. Whatever else comes out of this, I think you should tell ofsted at some point along the line (even if it's in a few years time after your dd and ds have left).

Their refusal to let your dd take in a snack and miss supper sounds wildly unreasonable, given that you are collecting her within 15 minutes of the start of their meal. The babysitting charge of £4.00 an hour (and this is for an unqualified teenage babysitter who has no travel costs) is really high. At the very least, can you find another babysitting arrangement?

Can you send a copy of the childcare bill to an outside nursery organisation, to look into? Again, I'd recommend you contact the early years department at the council or someone from Ofsted. Even if they just clarify to you how the bill is calulated, at least you'll know you're not being ripped off there. And it's possible they may uncover some 'creative accounting'.

While I think we'd all agree with Granard's statement that sorting out childcare is ultimately a parent's responsiblity, it sounds to me that this nursery is making you pay through the nose every which way it can. (Granard, the £10.00 per session cost is IME a high one for the UK - my son's afterschool club charges £6.50 a session and this is about standard here - and of course you have to take a parents earnings into account. In Germany your earnings may be higher than Rhubarb's making it easier for you pay your nursery fees without quibble).

Rhubarb, how well do you know the other parents who use the nursery? Can you see how they feel about the arrangements and charges? You might find fellow sympathisers, even offers to do reciprocal evening babysitting etc?

Rhubarb i understand your problems i really do but couldn't even think about letting a 7 year old have a key and go home on her own. She is far too young. I have three teenage children, i know childcare is a problem, a nightmare sometimes but i took crap jobs so that the hours fitted in with the kids.
I would be worried about someone noticing her walking home on her own each day and then following her, all the usual fire/burning issues, the telephone ringing, loads of things. But mostly i would feel sorry for her watching her friends going home with parents and her being all alone and going into an empty house.......
I really do hope you find a solution, this is a very difficult part of parenthood isn't it.

Rhubarb - is the after school care your dd goes to a private nursery or is it run as a charity.

Most After school clubs (including the one my dd1 goes to) are run as charities and as such have a committee which 'run' the club - ie finances, etc with the staff there to do the day to day admin and most importantly looking after the children. If it is run like this then ask to see the chair of the committee (or one of the committee members) to talk about the fee structure - you are then not seenn by the staff to be complaining.

If it is a private nursery it will be more difficult to change things - but if they are making it difficult to work out how you are being charged then there must be lots of other disgruntled parents - could you try talking to any of them to see what their thoughts are.

Unfortunately, after school clubs have a captive market which does make it really difficult to make changes.

Good luck - I hope you manage to get something sorted

Sorry, haven't read the whole post.

I think laterally - is there any way that dd can stay at school a bit longer?

Perhaps 'helping' a teacher who stays there until 4.15 or the caretaker.

The caretaker at my kids' school has her own kids in helping her with the cleaning!

(Tigermouth, I just wanted to clarify that I don't live in Germany!, I live in Ireland.) My daughter's after-school is a community initiative and is partly funded by the Government but it still costs 150 euro per week and it's a case of pay-up or let someone else have the place I'm afraid! There is a committee but if anyone ever queried the cost, they'd probably get shown the waiting list! I lived in the UK for many years and salaries in Ireland are lower than the UK but the cost of living is considerably higher unfortuately. Babysitters here - teenage or otherwise - charge ?10 per hour before 12 and ?15 per hour after 12 + the cost of their taxi home. I know Rhubarb has made the decision not to give her daughter a key but I also thought (as blossomsmine) of the danger of someone noticing a pattern of a child walking home alone and being on their own for a set amount of time on certain days. Sadly, all it takes is one bad person to notice the window of opportunity and avail of it. Good luck.

Granard I am quite shocked that babysitters in your part of Ireland, even the unqualified teenage ones, charge charge 10 euros per hour before 12 and 15 euros per hour after 12 (+ the cost of their taxi home). I don't know the exact conversion rate but does that work out at about £7.00 per hour, before 12.00 0'clock?

I live in south east London and expect to pay experienced babysitters (usually older teenagers) around £15.00 plus taxi home for 3 - 4 hours babysitting before midnight.

I still think rhubarb should query the inflexibility of the charges and find out how other parents are feeling about this.

I also agree that blossom has a point about someone noticing a pattern if a child goes home alone.

FWIW, going back to my own afterschool childcare problems in finding someone to transport my son from school to his playclub, I have now had a second offer of help. Both times the respective parents have said they wanted wait and settle into the new term before offering to drop off my son. So I wonder, Rhubarb, if you may have more luck with parents offering to look after your dd now that term is underway?

( ps, my names is tigermoth)

Hi guys, thought I'd update.

I got someone to pick dd up on Mondays, but when I went round for her last Monday, this person had left her with her next-door neighbour, a woman I do not know, who smokes pot and has a very large dog. dd was only there for 3/4 of an hour and seemed ok, but personally I think she'd probably be safer with a bloody key! Anyway, we'll see how that goes.

The breakfast club I have cancelled, I can just about make it if I have ds in the car and shoot off as soon as I see the school doors open. It does mean rushing, but it all helps to save the pennies.

I've complained to the nursery owner and she has come back with a deal. She said she was going to stagger the home-times to 5pm and 6pm. So she told me she'd only charge me £6 per session if I picked dd up at 4.30pm. She would also only give her a small portion of the meal so that dd could eat at home with us. But I've to keep this under my hat otherwise other mums would want the same deal.

Obv I'm very happy with that, but now feel guilty that I'm getting something the other mums are not getting. I suppose when she finally does introduce the staggered hometimes after Chrimbo I'll feel better, but I still feel uncomfortable receiving something that is not available to others in the same situation.

Gawd I'm a moaning Minnie aren't I?

I understand what you're saying about the others, but you've sorted things out for your daughter, and that's your priority.

Glad you've been able to sort it out.

Thanks, I just wish I hadn't cancelled for Mondays now. The mum was lovely to offer and I'm sure she trusts the neighbour, after all her own little ds was there too, but I was a bit shocked to find my dd there.

This mum even suggested I mention my childcare problems to this woman in case she could help! I just muttered that I'd sorted something with the nursery. I can see another rush to get home quickly every Monday now!

And she smelt of 'dog' too. Yuk!

glad you're sorted rhubarb. I know you feel a bit guilty about getting a better deal at the nursery, but possibly you are not the only one! The manager may have had this complaint from other parents in the past and had come to a similar 'secret' compromise. But perhaps your complaint tipped the balance into her introducing a staggered pick up time for all.

Hope mondays get better. The arrangement would have worried me too, but at least your dd was ok and it is not for very long.

Granard I reread the posts and I am mystified as to why I thought you lived in Germany - sorry for my confusion!

Rhubarb, well done on sorting a deal out with the after school; i'm sure Tigermouth is right and you're probably not the first to have agreed a separate arrangement. I'm pretty shocked that the woman left your child with a neighbour when the understanding was that she would be responsible. Tigermouth, no worries on thinking I lived in Germany! There's a general acceptance here that everything costs more than anywhere else. It was a huge shock to me, having lived in the UK, to have to pay 50 or 60 euro for a visit to the GP for either myself or my daughter. The dentist charged me 50 euro recently to take a quick look at my daughter's teeth to make sure they were ok and there was enough room for the new teeth to come in. It took him all of 3 minutes. Anyway, hope everything works out Rhubarb and you can settle into a new routine.

granard, it's moth - tigermoth

Do you have a villiage pre-school Rhubarb? You could approach the staff maybe and see if one of them would be able to help? Just a thought.

Oh dear, sorry about that Tigermoth.