Why is there so much hostility against teachers on MN?

[Bulb1976]

Is it jealousy? The daily teacher bashing threads on here are ridiculous.

Do you blame us for schools closing?

To be fair giraffe it’s not quite the same, is it?

Clavinova

Oddly enough - I'm not going out today

Well done here's a sticker for you

Where is the evidence of teachers moaning that we work harder than anyone? I’ve seen this mentioned a few times in this thread but I’ve never seen it? Please bring forth your evidence.

a fair bit here

and here

this one

A lot is justified because some people are silly and think teachers work only a bit harder than children. However, I think as a result of this there’s a lot of defensiveness.

Clavinova thanks for the links for Scottish teachers. You will note that this is from a site aimed at recruitment of people into the profession.
Our current salary is the result of winning a hard-fought pay campaign. We are now turned towards workload, as teachers do not report being able to fulfil our role in the 35 hours mentioned in our contacts, or anything near it.
We are paid for some but not all of our holidays.
I suspect your posts as being of a "gotcha!" variety but not sure what you think you are proving.

Posie only one of those links is to a thread started by a teacher, and it is one asking for positive stories as they are fed up of teacher bashing. The middle one is exactly what we've talked about - a thread titled "do teachers really work that hard?" - set up to goad, and you'd hardly be surprised if a teacher comes on it to respond.

Well apparently we teachers aren’t allowed to respond, because if we do we are moaning.

Because they’re thick

I think people are just confused, you’ve said you’re sick of the hostility on Mumsnet regarding teachers. A great amount of people have responded with nice things, informative anecdotes and their own personal viewpoints. As evidenced on this thread people don’t dislike teachers and usually on threads about them they are defended quite voraciously.

It’s not nice to read negative or ignorant things about your profession but for what it’s worth on Mumsnet teachers don’t have it as bad as others.

I wouldn’t care what a bunch of people with absolute non jobs think about teachers. Teachers are vital people. They will keep their jobs after this and be needed like never before.

Social media influencers, sales people, marketing, corporate finance, catering, public relations, estate agents, travel agents, hotel staff, bar tenders, sales assistants not so much. All of these are highly disposable jobs. Most of them are utterly inessential and overpaid for what they are. And once this is over it will be really obvious who actually has important job and who doesn’t.

Teachers - you are great. Don’t take any crap from middle marketers who are fed up of their own children.

Shouldn't it be 'hostility towards' not 'hostility against'? This is why we need our wonderful teachers.

once both threads have a lot of teachers saying how hard they work (rightly so, they do) but I think where this is problematic is when it’s compared to other jobs.

As above, reporting concerns about a child isn’t the same as having to go into a house alone, tell the parents they aren’t doing a good enough job and might have their child(ren) removed - it just isn’t.

I think teachers are great. I think your attitude stinks op and if it's one you regularly display then I can see why you think teachers get a hard time.

Opening post - posit that people are jealous

Someone posts about GP's also getting a proverbial kicking - defensive post about it but being as hard as teaching because they don't take their work home with them

Discussion around the holiday issue - why don't you go and do the PGCE then, as though this is a checkmate and that unless someone is willing to do the job then they are not allowed to criticise it.

Pathetic defensive stuff all round when you've started a discussion asking why some people might not think that teachers are deserving of praise.

LexMitior Thanks for the support. We don’t belittle other people’s jobs, we just wish they don’t belittle ours.

Discussion around the holiday issue - why don't you go and do the PGCE then, as though this is a checkmate and that unless someone is willing to do the job then they are not allowed to criticise it.
The difference is between genuinely discussing holidays and the almost inevitable goady posts that come with it.

The "go do a PGCE" comments almost always follow people pointing out how easy the job is, how holidays mean nobody should discuss the challenges, how they know a friend's aunty who says they work 9-3 and never work outside those hours.

Unfortunately although there's many wonderful elements of the job, there are a number of issues and we are having a recruitment and retention crisis. It's very easy for people on the outside to throw stones and tell teachers how easy it is and so on, but I don't see them signing up to do it, nor do I see crowds of people wanting to teach, which suggests that it's probably not the easy ride with masses of holiday some claim it is.

Social media influencers, sales people, marketing, corporate finance, catering, public relations, estate agents, travel agents, hotel staff, bar tenders, sales assistants not so much. All of these are highly disposable jobs. Most of them are utterly inessential and overpaid for what they are. And once this is over it will be really obvious who actually has important job and who doesn’t.

Really...?
I really really hope "disposable" sales assistants doesnt include all those people on NMW working their hardest serving you in the supermarket, stacking shelves etc

And presumably you'll never ever want to move house, go on holiday or go to a pub, bar or restaurant once restrictions are lifted.

My job is non essential (well it is to me as it it pays the bills!) it's part of a supply chain to retail (of something non essential) but that doesn't mean I dont work hard, have stressful periods of work, or am overpaid.

I think you are still missing the point Posie. There is a difference between coming on a thread to moan about your job being hardest, and coming on a thread to defend your job against accusations of it being piss-easy. Most comments I see teachers make about job problems are defensive ones related to how often we are attacked.

@Stripeyfrog - I don’t belittle what you do. But be real, there will be the mother of all recessions after this. People in jobs like the ones I have listed are going to face redundancy across the board. Buying a house will not need lots of estate agents. Going to a bar? Restaurants? Marketing?

What sort of disposable income do you think people are going to have after this? There are record numbers of people who be unemployed.

Teachers; well they are keeping theirs. So to say their jobs are easy or non important is rubbish.

Nobody has said that @lex.

My comment, atomic about us having an overlap in clients was in response to this comment of yours

If all you’ve got to worry about is annoying parents who don’t appreciate you be grateful.

A social worker should definitely know that that’s not true in terms of what teachers have to deal with.

After all, one of the categories of children who are currently allowed to be in school, looked after by teachers, is ‘children whose families are assigned a social worker’.

Can you imagine if teachers were self-employed?

The perfect storm of MN hatred.

@Onceateacher

There is a difference between coming on a thread to moan about your job being hardest, and coming on a thread to defend your job against accusations of it being piss-easy. Most comments I see teachers make about job problems are defensive ones related to how often we are attacked.

This, exactly. This should be a sticky post!

With all due respect (truly) my clients barely come from school teacher referrals. But that’s by the by right now.

There is an overlap but hardly the same job at all. And it’s absolutely not a competition. It’s fair to point out that actually compared to others on here teachers get a fairly easy time, as I said it’s just some perspective.

My original opinion of this thread not having much of a point still stands, people have been mostly (barring one or two) incredibly understanding and kind regarding how difficult it must be to feel your profession is always under attack, or your character, work ethic etc. Though in my experience as pretty much everyone else on this thread is that is simply not true of mumsnet teachers are almost universally defended on here.

Teachers are one of the many backbones of this country but frankly people aren’t going to win respect when they’re on here being derogatory and belligerent about children and parents. And the only argument they have is ‘well you go and do it then’ it’s very tedious and childlike.

*LexMitior

@Stripeyfrog- I don’t belittle what you do. But be real, there will be the mother of all recessions after this. People in jobs like the ones I have listed are going to face redundancy across the board. Buying a house will not need lots of estate agents. Going to a bar? Restaurants? Marketing?

What sort of disposable income do you think people are going to have after this? There are record numbers of people who be unemployed.*

You cant belittle what I do because I havent disclosed it. Neither would I belittle anyone elses jobs . I dont think anyone has implied teachers are not important. And I'm not an idiot I am expecting a massive recession and far less disposable income in my own household. It scares the shit out of me.
Some (and obviously not all) teachers have complained about being overworked, overstressed and underpaid. I've been really impressed with my DS teachers and am v grateful for the work and time they are putting in and I have emailed the teacher and the headteachers to tell them so.

The same could be said for many others at the moment, including supermarket workers who will be paid a lot less! The list of key workers who are essential to keeping the country running is surprisingly large, with lots of unseen (or previously unthought of) workers.

There are many teachers my family and I do know many teachers work hard and are dedicated to their jobs. I also know some dreadful teachers who would have been hung out to dry many years ago if they were in another career (my Mum got back into teaching thanks to such an individual who played the sickpay system for years).

We don’t belittle other people’s jobs, we just wish they don’t belittle ours.

'Schools aren't childcare' is belittling to childcare workers, many of whom have (teaching) degrees and work long hours on NMW delivering the EYFS. It's a big bugbear of mine and yes, I have argued the point with the teachers in my family who have said it because I think it's inappropriate to belittle those who are doing a similar job for less money.

I also think there are harder jobs that require comparable or more training, HCPs are the obvious example. But you often hear teachers saying how their job is the hardest job which is bullshit. Teaching has dropped in status, the pay is lower than it was and particularly at primary it is now a very feminised profession (professions that are female heavy tend to drop in status due to sexism). If it's so hard why don't teachers retrain to do something else? I suspect for some it is actually a better paid and higher status job than they could get elsewhere. Good teachers sometimes stay because they have a vocation but sometimes leave to get financially rewarded and with the hope of a better WLB but the poor performers have a tendency to stay because of the job security. I don't think this is just true of teaching, the same is true of many secure jobs but it's very visible to the public in teaching.