To try cry it out

[Pippinsqueak]

Please be gentle, first time chronically sleep deprived mum of a 14th month old baby that is breast fed to sleep and when she wakes. She wakes almost hourly and has done since birth. I'm starting to loose it.

Aibu to try gentle cry it out? I don't even know where to start as I've always avoided it as I was told it's not the right thing to do by health visitors/gps etc. She is also still in our room in a cot bed on the other side so was thinking to move her in there soon.

Any advice on cry it out ? Also I am seeing a breastfeeding specialist when c-19 is over to wean off boob

Thanks in advance.

I thought it may settle her if I was for a couple of nights

I'm probably wrong

I'm afraid not only is it not gentle it's often quite traumatic for the baby and makes them needier.

Imagine you were that tiny and vulnerable and you were purposefuly left for dead. When it 'works'the parents get quiet and the baby had learned to be ignored. So needier kids long term.

I have some time now. So, in your shoes I would do the following:

Nice new bedding, pjs, cuddle toy or something, make it special, she’s now a “big girl” and will be in her own room, yay! Move the bed early one morning, do day time naps in it as usual. Spend lots of time in the room, maybe even do that the 2-3 days prior to moving the cot.

First night: bath, pjs, feed with low lighting in the room. Say goodnight, you’re a big girl now, you can sleep here and I’m just next door, and I love you. Leave, leave light on outside her room so it’s not too dark. Go back in after 1min, shush and soothe vocally, maybe pat. Don’t stay more than 15-20secs. If she’s sat up or standing lay her down once with a “it’s sleep time now, we love you, night night”. Leave. Repeat after 2 mins if necessary (it probably will be), then 5, then every 8 or 10mins depending on what you can handle. Set a stopwatch. Don’t give in. Reassure verbally, gentle stroking, brief pop ins or you’ll just make it worse. Ideally alternate with your husband so it’s not all on you.

Choose say 2 times in the night that you think she needs a feed. Go in and dream feed ie half wake her, to eat. She must be asleep before you feed her, if she’s already crying then you’re going to confuse her- sometimes she cries and gets fed, other times not. She won’t know what’s what.
All other wakings, repeat the pattern above.

Commit to one week. Get your partner on board so no one gives in. It’s gonna be tough, you will be tired. At the end of the week reassess, and likely you’ll need to mentally commit to another week. Within 2 weeks, it should be cracked. You can then shorten and gradually drop the night feeds; your milk supply will adapt if you do this gradually.

You MUST BE CONSISTENT. It won’t work if you freak out on the first night and give in, or give in at 4am. It will make things worse as your child will be confused. Children are like animals, they need clear boundaries, and you’re wiping the slate clean and making it clear that baby is safe and loved and not forgotten - but at nighttime we sleep.

Just to follow up - after the 4m sleep regression my niece was sleeping 9-12, then waking every hour til 5, then maybe going another 90mins. My SIL did the above and cracked it in 5 nights, niece slept, and still sleeps, 7-7! They did a bottle dream feed at 11pm that they gradually moved to 10pm and at 7mo have now dropped. The first night they had intended a 3am feed but all slept through it, so concluded it wasn’t necessary.

Just wanted to add a voice saying don't be guilted by people why think it's ok to be woken every hour at night for over a year ( I mean, really?! I can't believe you're still standing as it is!)

Clearly this is untenable. I'm always amazed that people seem to think it's OK for small children to be fully waking that often as well - I cannot believe that they're getting optimum sleep that they need for their development that way.

The approach we took with our little one (though he was younger so I appreciate there will be different challenges), for what it's worth, was softly-softly and solving one problem at a time.

Started with night weaning once he was weaning onto solids during the day. Just reducing the amount of milk, either in time (breast feeds) or ml (bottle feeds) gradually each night and one feed at a time (i.e. if he was waking for 3 feeds a night, just starting to reduce the amount given at one of them). Once I was down to about 30ml for that feed, I tried just patting and rocking out giving a little bit of water in the bottle instead at a push. Then moved onto cutting down the next feed as it felt appropriate. You can do this all of this at your own pace and sort of feel your way. It doesn't have to be totally rigid but for me it was feeling the line between what was needed and what was habit.

Eventually he was just feeding once at night but then not hungry for his proper morning bottle so I knew it was time to do the same thing with that final night feed (and he was otherwise eating very well during the day so knew nutrition wasn't an issue). Same method. After dropping that feed we had a few nights of habit wake and cuddle back to sleep, and then one night (that was actually just one stint of 40mins about 4am) of doing the comfort then leaving intervals of a few minutes before repeating the comfort. Problem basically solved. We now have a more or less reliable 11 hours sleep over night barring the odd cry at 10pm if he's poorly or seems to have had a bad dream or similar and the odd early wake at 5am (both of which oddly reassure me that he will indeed cry when he needs us and hasn't just been bullied into silence as some would have you believe!)

Which is a very long-winded way of saying that it's not all or nothing. The way I see it is that it's my job to teach him fundamental skills - of which sleeping well is one - and some of those things will be harder to learn than others for different children. I'll be there to comfort him but also need to balance that with guiding him in how to do things for himself as appropriate and being calm and sure enough in my decisions that he doesn't need to panic thinking that mummy can't be relied on to take a reassuringly confident lead. Much easier said than done but I try to keep that as my touchstone!

Good luck

Jesus, PatricksRum, I mean well done, I guess? But I hope you're not a driver!

Children are like animals

I don't think children are like animals and need to be "trained" like them

@WokeOnTheWater Nope, no driving fortunately

I’m not saying you train them like animals, I said they need clear boundaries. And speaking as someone with a toddler that I adore, I stand by my statement! Children thrive in environments with limits and discipline- and love! Limits don’t mean abuse. But children need to know how we behave in a society, and for our health as individuals, and in our families to keep good relationships... and one boundary is that once we’re in bed, we sleep, because it’s good for us.

@Goostacean boundaries a different to leaving them to cry.

Are*

Op, my kids are 16 and 13. We did controlled crying at 7 months. They are emotionally and mentally fine and very secure.
You do what's best for you, ignore the guilt trippers.

Thank you for your support guys especially @Goostacean

You may disagree but we are finding that many aspects of training working dogs and having a baby very similar lol

@Pippinsqueak last night was similar again for my baby. He woke up twice but settled quite easily for my husband.

To anyone who night weaned, when did they stop waking? I know on night 2 I'm a bit premature but just out of interest?

My son night weaned when we moved him into his own room. He never took a bottle but drank water from his cup at that stage, he was 13months.

I stopped feeding him and my husband went in to settle . I still fed him through the day but started to wean him slowly then too.

We never left him to cry for any length of time, instead comforting him both in our arms and in the cot.

I think he couldn’t settle properly with us in the bedroom.

@Russel19

Ours still wakes even though we weaned totally of milk months ago... don't get your hopes up!

I hate these posts. Sticking a baby on its own to do "controlled crying" is unnatural and has been proven to cause them stress, whether they're still crying or have given up.

Having a baby is all consuming and hard work.

They need to be by their mums side while they are vulnerable. Yes it's fucking hard for the mother.

It is a relatively short time in the scheme of their whole childhood spent with you.

I've had three and gave them what they wanted and needed during the night. My two eldest are not babies anymore and they sleep in their own rooms now without me having to do "sleep training". It's not forever but they need you.

Google Dr Jay Gordon night weaning method. One tough week of patting and shushing to sleep instead of feeding and it fixed the issue for my 14 month old, with no crying it out

@floatygoat

And there is also lots of evidence that proves it causes absolutely no harm and can be better in the long run because everyone gets a good nights sleep.., but please, continue to pick evidence that supports just your personal thoughts.

It feels very wrong and against all instinct - which is why no mother on earth finds it easy not to run to their baby when they're crying out for them - and that is the strongest evidence there is - it's common sense! Babies don't understand why their mummy isn't coming, they just feel distressed and then learn not to bother crying.
We evolved to be the way we are for good reasons and a baby is going through all kinds of emotional development during these early stages and beyond.

@floatygoat

You do understand that just because you believe something and have it as your opinion, it doesn't make it fact?

Honestly the thought of my baby being left to cry breaks my heart. She wakes several times in the night and I'm there for her. Am I tired and fed up? Yeah most of the time. Would I leave her to cry so I can get more sleep? Fucking hell no. I brought her into the world, I'm her mum, and I have to suck it up. It's a few years out of a lifetime for me....but for the baby it's the foundation of their development.

@Pentium85 believe what you want to make yourself feel better about leaving a baby to cry. It's pretty obvious which option is better for the baby and which is better for the mum.

What do the anti cryers do when their toddler doesn’t want to go to bed at bedtime- just let them stay up until they pass out?

Several times is not hourly. For FOURTEEN MONTHS. That’s not “need” - that’s just a very bad habit!