To try cry it out

[Pippinsqueak]

Please be gentle, first time chronically sleep deprived mum of a 14th month old baby that is breast fed to sleep and when she wakes. She wakes almost hourly and has done since birth. I'm starting to loose it.

Aibu to try gentle cry it out? I don't even know where to start as I've always avoided it as I was told it's not the right thing to do by health visitors/gps etc. She is also still in our room in a cot bed on the other side so was thinking to move her in there soon.

Any advice on cry it out ? Also I am seeing a breastfeeding specialist when c-19 is over to wean off boob

Thanks in advance.

Not rtft so sorry if repeating but I would google the Dr Jay Gordon method of night weaning

Please don’t just shut the door and leave your baby to cry themselves to sleep. Would you treat your partner that way if they were upset?

@Knoxinbox please read my posts at no point have I said I would do this

I haven't read tge full thread so apologies if this has been covered but : does she have her own room she could go into? I found mine slept far better in own room when we transferred him at 7 months. I still feed to sleep (hes 12m) and he still wakes twice between bedtime and morning, but it's a vast improvement. He also now can put himself back to sleep, and is doing so more frequently. If you have the room id give it a go.

@lookingatthings she's going in there tomorrow she's in with us but in her own cot on the other side of the room. I know she needs to go in there but it feels weird and her room just feels big and empty.

I would love her to wake twice a night

OP look up gradual sleep training. Just remember, sometimes babies cry because they are tired and want to go to sleep.

We've done it very gently and gradually with DC2, who is 7m. Eg.

Feed until drowsy but not stone cold asleep. Put in cot. Baby will grumble - they don't like change.

We spent around a month getting from feeding mostly to sleep to putting DC wide awake and it didn't involve leaving her crying a lot. A minute or two of tired fussing, yes.

Also OP if you are anything like me, the sleep deprivation doesnt do your milk supply any good. Our bodies can manage the first 3 or 4 months of little sleep then they need a bit more!

@yulertula of course I keep my toddler safe and have boundaries with her - the difference is I always comfort her. So say she has a tantrum, I sit with her, support her, cuddle etc. I would never leave her to cry alone when I could comfort her.

If say I can't comfort her (I'm driving etc and it's not safe) I talk to her, reassure her and when it's safe cuddle and comfort her.

Small children need to be dependent on their care givers and feel safe with them. This allows them to become independent in the future and empathetic individuals who have learnt how to regulate their emotions as they've had it modelled for them.

babies don't need to learn how to sleep, they know how to sleep from birth oh jeeze this again....babies don’t know how to eat or use a potty or form sentences or read books when they are born. In every other aspect of raising a child it’s thought a responsible care giver teaches them at the right time. The minute you mention sleep all hell brakes loose.
There’s clearly a correlation between those anti sleep training and those whose 4 year olds wake every hr.
I really don’t care if people don’t want to train or wean off the boob but don’t brand parents that do unloving. Personally I think my LO has gained more in her development from undisturbed sleep, she’s in no way detached from me, and still calls for me if In need- and I always go to her.

You might be distracting for her with you in the room. She wakes and smells nice milk and fancies some... pretty sure my DC is the same

With dc1 i put him in his own room then only offered him water after bed time, it didn't take long for him to realise he wasn't getting any milk and stopped calling for me

Just be aware that it might break her bond and trust with you

Also I thought Ferber was definitely NOT recommended

The thing with waking up because they 'smell milk' is a myth.

I know how you feel OP. My son woke a number of times every night until at 13 months I couldn't take it anymore. It's another level of exhaustion! We started a good routine of bath, bottle, book & an episode of in the night garden & the first night he cried on & off for about 45 minutes. I kept going in & re assuring him, trying to soothe him without picking him up. This took 3 nights, & every night got easier & he fell asleep easier. This was 3 months ago & he has slept through the night every night 7-6/7 unless sick or teething. I was completely against letting him cry, but it has changed my life.& he is also much happier in the day, as he is getting a good amount of sleep now. It's not for everyone & it is definitely not an easy choice, but for us it's been 100% positive.

Just be aware that it might break her bond and trust with you

Total, guilt-tripping, unsubstantiated BS.

just be aware that it might break her bond and trust with you absolute unfounded lies!!!

Bosh
Small children also need to learn that their home & their bed are safe secure places.

A sleep deprived parent is not always a great parent.

Controlled crying approaches don't involve leaving a child screaming to sleep. You return and comfort at whatever intervals you are comfortable with. I've found with both my kids that remaining constantly with them is too stimulating for them, they simply don't go to sleep and get more and more overtired.

Try feeding to sleep then waking back up and putting down in cot. Then send husband in for settling after that.

How is what I said unfounded and unsubstantiated? I know of this from accounts of families who have used sleep training clinics. It also makes sense to me, because you're essentially training your child not to call out for you when they feel they need you. I know for me this would involve a mindset shift in how I view my child and our relationship, otherwise I wouldn't be able to make sense of it and bear hearing her cry for me and not respond.

I honestly didn't mean to guilt trip the OP - just to warn her - it's definitely something to be conscious of. Just as there are lots of people on this threat making it sound as if sleep training is totally normal and fine, so there are many parents who desperately regret having put themselves and their children through it.

(And it's also just logical that it shifts their relationship with you - because they literally learn that they can no longer trust you'll come when they cry for you.)

My DD was like yours, needed fed to sleep and would wake 10-12 times a night. I think I read every book out there on sleep training and bore the pants off any unsuspecting friend who was willing to listen. Also spent many an evening arguing with ransoms on chat rooms about sleep training.

I tried everything but I found the "gentler" methods were more distressing for DD as she would cry more everytime I returned into the room. In the end 3 days of CIO sorted her out and we never looked back. Now she's 10 and I have different issues with getting her to go to bed!

Honestly, a bit of sleep training won't damage her relationship with you or harm her in anyway. In fact sleep disturbance you are now all having is going to cause more harm. There was some research into this recently. I'll see if I can find it.

Good luck op. It's tough but you can do it!

because they literally learn that they can no longer trust you'll come when they cry for you you can keep saying it but it’s not true.
All of us who have sleep trained don’t have emotionally stunted children who don’t cry.

We can equally twist your logic Sunshiness, you've made your child terrified of sleeping, their development will be drastically delayed without them having a full nights sleep.

@Boshmama the crossing the road analogy was highlight how you know better than your child, and the important role you play in teaching them so many things, including sleep.

Also I think there seem to be an implication that just because you spend 3 nights letting your baby learn to sleep that you somehow don't ever comfort them rest of time. That you're somehow a cold hearted parent that doesn't love their child - this is guilt trip is what makes many parents feel like they can't take the CIO approach. But it's simply not true.

Anyway, my child has been asleep for about 3.5 hours now, I've had a lovely evening with DH and I'm about to pop up and have an uninterrupted night's sleep. Can't wait to see my little one in the morning who is so full of energy after a good night's sleep

The article is in the guardian entitled "should you let your baby.cry it out" and is based upon a paper published in The Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry

You have done a great job breast feeding this long, not many people get past the first few weeks let alone over a year.

Check out breast feeding older babies and beyond on Facebook they have a raft of useful information including about frequent night waking.

Defo look up safe co-sleeping and give it a try again, you will get less wakes ups for sure.

It's just about surviving, it's a phase. Things will shift all of a sudden and you will forget you were even in despair about this. Get in as many people as possible to support you through this awful sleep deprivation.

Also Sarah Ockwell-Smith has a great book and Information online about sleep. It's absolutely the biological norm for your baby to be waking (it sucks though for you).

@yulertula snap! Glad you've had a good evening too. I can't wait for a good night safe in the knowledge my little girl knows mummy and daddy are there for her, day or night whenever she needs.

On the 'we teach babies to read etc.' yes of course, they don't know how to do that at birth, but they do know how to sleep. They don't know how to sleep like an adult, because they are a baby and aren't developmentally able to.

When you sleep train all you are doing is teaching your child that you won't come when they call. Research shows that a baby's cortisol level remains excessively high even after they've given up calling for a care giver.

You don't know the damage you are causing emotionally because you'll never know how your child would have turned out if you had simply responded to them.

I don't think parents who sleep train are cold hearted, I just think they've been misled by 'easy' fixes of three nights crying and then all your sleep problems disappear. I think they put themselves first and the needs of their child second when it comes to sleep and attachment. In some cases that might absolutely be the right thing to do (post partum psychosis etc.) But often the mum could get more support to sleep at other times and get the rest needed to be the parent she wants, without negatively impacting the rapidly developing brain of her child.

Another one here who did controlled crying at 8 months. I felt so incredibly guilty and took ages to work up the courage. We cracked it in one night. Since then she's slept 7-7 pretty much every night. (Now 15 months.)

I'm not saying that to be all smug/wondermum, I just think it's worth a go and could be a lot less painful than you may fear. In the long run you would be doing your DD a favour - waking every hour must be exhausting for her too.

Good luck, I really feel for you.

@Boshmama I'm afraid I don't believe you, as your first post was about how your child doesn't sleep at night and how you are still having to feed at night.

Also, it depends what research you are quoting as there is just as much on the flip side, that sleep training has no impact on parental attachment, that it's beneficial in the long term for both parties and that parents who don't sleep train have children with behaviour problems due to sleep deprivation, and their own mental health deteriorates.

My child knows he is in a safe and happy place - it's why he sleeps uninterrupted. Not constantly waking, panicking and seeking out comfort.

Anyway, what is they say on mumsnet? You do you.

OP, I am an avid co-sleeper/never let my child cry etc etc but even I say if you mental health, ability to mother and ability to function in day to day life is being affected then sometimes action needs to be taken.

Have you tried a sleep consultant? I know a few people who have had brilliant responses to these.

Next, be aware of the cry it out method does not work for all children, so don't persevere if after a week or so it isn't effective.

Cry it out obviously isn't what any parent plans to do, and it isn't in our nature to let our babies cry, but you have to be sane and mentally healthy to parent right.

Do what is best for you and your family